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[Music]

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this is lou elizondo and you are

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast my name is andy and joining me

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for the second time on the podcast as a

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professor of biological anthropology at

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montana technological university in

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montana he received a phd in

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anthropology from the ohio state

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university in 2009 where he specialized

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in hominin evolutionary anatomy

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archaeology and biomedicine you may have

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heard his previous appearance on this

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podcast very late last year 2021

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discussing his last book identified

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flying objects a multidisciplinary

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scientific approach to the ufo

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phenomenon welcome back to the podcast

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dr michael masters michael how are you

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i'm doing great thanks for having me

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back andy it's always fun talking to you

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i am glad i got through that in one go

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seeing all those big words that's pretty

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good

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yeah that's all downhill all downhill

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from here yeah you're a take one kind of

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guy no take two's for you it's it's

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laziness that's that's what it is um

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straight off the bat i'm going to

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attempt another big word and first

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question is the title of the new book as

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the extratempestrial model

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can you explain the meaning of extra

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tempestuo

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sure absolutely so i was looking for a

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way of

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sort of encapsulating this idea of these

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beings um instead of coming from a

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different planet or or some other

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origins

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uh exploring the question of whether or

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not they're us from the future coming

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back through time to visit and study

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their own uh evolutionary past cultural

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past as well uh so i wanted something

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that was similar enough there that's

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conventional enough that people could

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sort of get the idea so i just took out

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tear from extraterrestrial which means

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outside of earth

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put in the latin root temp uh which

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means time so meaning outside of time so

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you kind of keep that sort of lexicon

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continuity in the sense that the words

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are similar but the the word that

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actually indicates the origin point uh

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is different and specific to

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a a temporal origin explanation

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i think it's a good talking point and i

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tried it today and and work i was on my

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lunch break and someone was asking me

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about the

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the podcast is suddenly went around the

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office because

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we finished top 20 in the uk listener

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choice awards at the british i saw that

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congrats that's awesome yeah very

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surprised but thank you very much to

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listeners because without them listening

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and voting and you don't get in there

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and it was some big names but so it's

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went around the office where i've never

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really talked about it and and one of

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the guys in there was asking you oh

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you've got this ufo aliens podcast um

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you know surely you don't believe in

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aliens coming from other planets and

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giving i had this interview tonight i

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mentioned well what if it wasn't from

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other planets and i said you know the

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phase extraterrestrial what if it was

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extraterrestrial and i got a bit of a

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huh and that kind of puzzled look across

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his face and then explained the idea

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really badly that what if it was from a

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different time and just that taking a

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total sidestep to the usual approach

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with someone who really has no interest

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in the subject they were like ah and can

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i got them in a conversation that maybe

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otherwise they wouldn't be as interested

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in because aliens coming from other

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planets flying saucers it's the same old

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same old and this is a it's not

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necessarily a new notion but it's

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becoming a more and more popular one

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and it's great to see it's it's really

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getting some traction over the last

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especially in the last year so it seems

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yeah and more and more books and papers

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are citing the idea that potentially

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it's something other than the classic

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from somewhere else and maybe it's some

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other time your previous book was

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identified flying objects a

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multidisciplinary scientific approach to

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the ufo phenomenon again folks go back

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and listen to that one from late

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december last year and again that

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touched on the idea of future humans

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within that conversation what was the

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inspiration to carry on that line of

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thinking into this brand new piece

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yeah it's a good question um there are a

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couple of things at play i guess

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before i wrote my first book i i was

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thinking about different approaches

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different ways of of looking at it and

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one of them involved looking at case

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studies highly vetted

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cases of mostly abduction and um

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especially those where there's a lot of

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other people involved there's a lot of

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documentation police reports those types

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of things

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um but i decided to go a different route

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for the first book and mostly

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take a multi-disciplinary approach that

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largely draws from my uh my background

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in biological anthropology

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paleoanthropology hominin

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evolutionary anatomy looking at

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long-term trends in our physiology

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because even without trying to speculate

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about what will happen to us in the

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future that might make us have bigger

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heads or bigger eyes just these same

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trends can tear continued on into the

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future that have endured for six million

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years were likely to look very similar

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to what's most commonly reported in

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these cases so

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um

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i i touched on those a little bit in the

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first book but it was also more about

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why might the extraterrestrial

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hypothesis need some critiquing what are

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some issues with that

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as it relates to this phenomenon as we

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understand it

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um astrobiology came into play what's

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the likelihood that we'll get an upright

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walking hominin on a different planet

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around a different star of different

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gravity distance from its sun

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uh atmosphere dna coding system may not

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even exist maybe they're silicone or

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then carbon based all of these other

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things that might go into their unique

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evolution compared to ours

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and then the physics the physics of time

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and time travel how might we actually

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come back from the future so i really

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only touched on a couple of cases just

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mentioned jim peniston's because he's

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arguing the same thing for very

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different reasons uh he received a

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download

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of binary code in the rendel shim forest

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in 1980

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and uh

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revealed and strongly believes that

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these were future human so

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i learned about his case right before

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publishing that book so kind of put that

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in there and one other case that i

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really enjoy too the amy rylance

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abduction in australia

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but otherwise it was really just about

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time time travel human evolution so

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once covid hit um i i swore i was never

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gonna write another book but then i got

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extremely bored

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and uh decided it was a good time to do

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it because everything shut down i'm

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teaching online

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um and yeah i just took advantage of

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that time and and started working on

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this and this this most recent book is

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as case study so i take those case

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studies break them down not just in the

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context of this extra tempestual model

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but also in the context of

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the extraterrestrial hypothesis the

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interdimensional

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hypothesis ultra-terrestrials um the

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jokester the simulation hypothesis just

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how how can what we learn from these

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cases

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fit in with or not fit in with these

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various models and mostly critiquing

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the extra tempestual model this time

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travel model specifically so it's just

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um a different approach it ties in a lot

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of you know science still but

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comes at it from a different perspective

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before i start asking you about the

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potential behaviors and why these beings

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may or may not be doing what they're

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doing

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i'd like to ask if as a species in in

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the year 2022

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we discovered time travel we we invented

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some form of craft that could take us

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back x number of years

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do you think we would behave in a

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similar way to what we see these beings

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and craft doing as i know we're going to

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go back several thousand years you know

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to biblical times way before are we

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going to perform abductions in some way

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shape or form what what could that look

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like

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i think it would look almost identical

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and in fact i mentioned that

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at the end of my most recent book that

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if i as an anthropologist was gifted

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time travel technology i would do the

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exact same things i would take care

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samples skin samples

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see sperm and egg gametes uh fecal

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samples you can learn so much about what

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people ate uh their their gut microbiome

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and many other things

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um and i and i would do it covertly i

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wouldn't want to really interject myself

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my research my researchers into that

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those past periods too overtly because

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not that it's going to create a new

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timeline or screw up a timeline but it

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adds complexity to our intertemporal

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relationships and may reveal something

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at a time that that causes intense

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ontological shock or disrupts the

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society so i think that sort of star

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trek ian prime directive

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sort of edict approach hands-off

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approach to doing this is also

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consistent with how we do research and

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and the irb the institutional review

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board we're required especially with

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prisoners children

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subjugated groups to get approval before

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we can even conduct study so

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it almost seems like many of those same

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protections and those basic

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uh objective research um protocols are

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in place the methodologies are similar

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but but then you look at the physical

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form too i'd be returning a technology

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that won't exist for thousands of years

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yet

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so we're much more advanced than these

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beans they may even see us as gods or

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deities of some sort because of that

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which is also common in these cases uh

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throughout antiquity

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and the physical form um you know if if

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i was a bald man i would look exactly

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like these greys to them in many ways

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depending how far back we went obviously

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farther than three or four thousand

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years but you know i would have a bigger

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more upright forehead bigger eyes

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smaller face um

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just a lot of the same characteristics

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that are described in these reports with

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these quintessential grey aliens but one

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thing i discovered in doing this

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research is that my first book was

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mostly focused on that because i was

282
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inspired as thousands and thousands of

283
00:10:03,430 --> 00:10:01,360
others were

284
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by the the cover of whitley strieber's

285
00:10:07,910 --> 00:10:05,279
book communion as a small child is eight

286
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:07,920
years old i looked up and saw that and

287
00:10:12,310 --> 00:10:09,680
just saw this connection between our

288
00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:12,320
ancestors ourselves and and these beings

289
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:15,200
which made me uh wonder if they could be

290
00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:17,040
our distant descendants

291
00:10:21,990 --> 00:10:18,640
so i was sort of starting from that

292
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:22,000
place where i'm connecting the um

293
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:23,600
the dots between our past present and

294
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future and morphology but our distant

295
00:10:30,069 --> 00:10:27,519
future and then as i'm doing this

296
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:30,079
research i'm finding out that

297
00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:33,120
a majority actually more than what's

298
00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:35,440
reported with these greys or or other

299
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:37,120
beings are actually human and they're

300
00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:39,760
described in the exact same way we

301
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:42,399
describe ourselves in modern human terms

302
00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:43,120
so

303
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:45,120
it made me think what if we're coming

304
00:10:47,590 --> 00:10:46,399
back much sooner

305
00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:47,600
than i

306
00:10:50,949 --> 00:10:49,440
originally anticipated people would ask

307
00:10:52,389 --> 00:10:50,959
me all right so these morphological

308
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:52,399
traits what might that indicate what

309
00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:53,600
time period

310
00:10:57,990 --> 00:10:56,000
and i'd say anywhere between like 20 40

311
00:10:59,829 --> 00:10:58,000
000 years or so just based on past

312
00:11:01,990 --> 00:10:59,839
evolutionary trends but then these

313
00:11:04,710 --> 00:11:02,000
humans could potentially be coming back

314
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,720
from 50 or 100 years in the future and

315
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:06,320
that might help explain why more of

316
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:08,000
their morphological characteristics are

317
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:09,600
so similar to our own

318
00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:11,680
and something else i'd like to mention

319
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:12,560
there

320
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:15,200
is that in archaeology we find things

321
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,240
that are

322
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:18,640
closer to our own present

323
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:20,959
simply because there's less time less

324
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:23,440
space for them to get destroyed or moved

325
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:24,160
or

326
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:27,200
uh lost anything like that so so a good

327
00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:29,440
analogy is with your your neighbors you

328
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:30,640
see people

329
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:32,480
in your neighborhood more often than you

330
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,440
see someone from kenya or zimbabwe or

331
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:37,440
south korea just because you're closer

332
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,440
in space to those people the same would

333
00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:41,440
apply in time we would expect to see

334
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:44,000
people closer to our position in time if

335
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:45,360
they're coming back from the future

336
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:46,720
simply because of that temporal

337
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,360
proximity whereas the the greys which i

338
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:51,360
argue are more distant temporal

339
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:53,279
descendant we see them less often

340
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:55,839
because we're just a small blip to them

341
00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:58,480
in the vastness of their past so i think

342
00:12:01,829 --> 00:12:00,399
that kind of helps explain what i refer

343
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:01,839
to as temporal variation the

344
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:04,160
morphological differences but also why

345
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,040
we see

346
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:07,040
more modern looking humans

347
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:08,959
at a higher frequency than

348
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:10,880
these greys the the more distant future

349
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:12,959
humans as i argue

350
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:15,760
does that level of technical advancement

351
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:17,120
and

352
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:18,800
superiority

353
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:22,720
justify any moral obligation to

354
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,480
going back and as covet as you say you

355
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,480
would try to be you're still potentially

356
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,320
going to be plucking someone from you

357
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,200
know neanderthal stage onto a craft they

358
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:33,360
don't know performing some sort of

359
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:34,560
experiment in the same way that

360
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:36,800
abductees claim they can be they can

361
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,639
have very unpleasant experiences they

362
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:40,160
aren't all pleasant as some people

363
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:42,800
report as there is the greater good

364
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,710
yeah that's a great question and

365
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:51,120
something i and my colleagues struggle

366
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:52,880
with uh tremendously i just gave a

367
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,440
presentation at the esselyn institute in

368
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:57,920
big sur california last week

369
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:00,240
and one of the questions from

370
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:02,880
a fellow phd inside in psychology i

371
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,440
guess um was like so should we

372
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,440
should we assume the irb doesn't exist

373
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,680
in the future basically asking that same

374
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:11,279
question because the institutional

375
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:12,720
review board it's funny i just mentioned

376
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,440
this uh are the ones that monitor

377
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:17,600
research so we're not repeating the

378
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:20,079
stanford prison experiments or the the

379
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,320
milgram electro shock experiments and

380
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,399
really doing damage to people

381
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,639
however with that said and why he asked

382
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,720
this is because i described some of the

383
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:30,320
things that happened and they are

384
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,760
arguably

385
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:33,680
unethical

386
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:34,399
so

387
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:35,760
you know how

388
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:38,000
if you if you continually impregnate and

389
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:39,760
take a developing fetus out of someone

390
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:42,079
throughout a 40-year period there's

391
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:43,839
ethical issues there

392
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:44,800
um

393
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:46,880
even taking you know sperm and eggs just

394
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:48,800
touching people in their no no square

395
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:50,480
repeatedly throughout their lives like

396
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:52,079
all of these things

397
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:52,880
are

398
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:56,079
unethical as as we see them so

399
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:58,000
it almost makes me think and i'm just

400
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,880
kind of

401
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,720
speculating here because i don't know

402
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:02,399
and there's no way i can know

403
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:03,760
but based on

404
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:06,480
research into a number of these cases it

405
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,399
almost seems like what they're doing

406
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:10,079
they consider to be important enough

407
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:11,839
that they can sidestep some of those

408
00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:13,920
moral quandaries that innately come

409
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:15,199
along with this

410
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,360
and and perhaps in some cases especially

411
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:18,959
as it relates to reproduction in our

412
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:20,800
gametes and gaming extractions and

413
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:23,440
zygote and fetal extractions

414
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:25,760
almost seems like they they have to

415
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:27,040
there's something

416
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:28,639
that's happened in the future that

417
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:31,360
requires them to do this and and it's

418
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:32,639
good that you mention that not all of

419
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:35,440
them are positive 85 percent based on

420
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:37,839
the dr edgar mitchell freeze study

421
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:40,800
a survey of almost 4 000 abductees and

422
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,160
contactees

423
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,639
showed the 85 percent of people who

424
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,320
interacted with the more human-like

425
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:48,480
beings had a positive or neutral

426
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:49,600
experience

427
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:50,639
and how you can have a neutral

428
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:51,920
experience when something like this

429
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:54,399
happens i have no idea because it seems

430
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:55,920
like it would be impactful in one way or

431
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,160
another but only five percent actually

432
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:00,720
had a negative experience so it does

433
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:02,480
happen and you know terry lovelace is a

434
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:04,480
great example of someone who had a very

435
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:06,880
negative experience throughout his life

436
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:10,079
um but but you have to wonder too if if

437
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:11,680
that's because

438
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,880
we can see

439
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:15,440
ourselves and our humanity more

440
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:17,600
if we're closer together in time and as

441
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:19,199
they get farther out and we seem more

442
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,639
primitive in the same way that we used

443
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,800
to do experiments on chimps and now it's

444
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,399
been outlawed pretty much

445
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:26,399
internationally we start to see our

446
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:29,199
humanness in them more so maybe farther

447
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:30,880
out in time the ones that are more

448
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:34,000
mantis like or the sort of tall grays

449
00:15:38,829 --> 00:15:35,759
that have even more derived traits

450
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:38,839
bigger eyes and just this this deeper

451
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,360
consciousness maybe our our relative

452
00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:43,600
primitiveness gives them a bit of a hall

453
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,160
pass in that regard um i don't know i

454
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,720
it's i i guess i'm i have to answer that

455
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:50,399
question by saying i don't

456
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:51,759
really have an answer i'm just kind of

457
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:53,120
spitballing on

458
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,079
on what i think based on um these cases

459
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:58,160
but but yeah there's there's real moral

460
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:00,160
and ethical issues that

461
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,560
that definitely should be talked about

462
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:04,560
and i'm glad we are but

463
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:06,399
i don't know if it'll

464
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,399
i don't know how you resolve that or if

465
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:10,079
you even can

466
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,680
i don't know if this necessarily

467
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:13,680
resolves it but thinking about our own

468
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:15,680
technologies got to a place where i i've

469
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:18,240
seen quite a few nature documentaries

470
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:20,959
where what we do is send a robot that

471
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:23,519
looks like a tuna fish or a dolphin or a

472
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,079
sea turtle into those habitats to to

473
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,160
almost blend in and not disturb the the

474
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:30,959
wildlife and i wonder would sufficiently

475
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:33,199
advanced beings from the future could

476
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,680
they almost sidestep that sort of

477
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:38,240
morality by and we hear these greys at

478
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,560
times almost being quite robotic and and

479
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:42,959
soulless in nature could be very

480
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:46,000
advanced biological robots almost

481
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,079
and they're performing tasks that

482
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:50,399
they're literally created for and that

483
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,000
that kind of gets around that any kind

484
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:53,839
of feeling of having to do it and in a

485
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,279
way i suppose we would do something

486
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:57,680
quite similar and a way of experimenting

487
00:17:01,509 --> 00:17:00,480
but taking away that kind of human

488
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:01,519
guilt

489
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:04,079
yeah i mean well it kind of becomes a

490
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:06,319
deeper question of what is ai too and

491
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,319
what level of consciousness

492
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:10,640
does ai have because if we're talking

493
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:11,919
about

494
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,760
humans that build these and and send

495
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:15,280
them and i've seen those documentaries

496
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,720
too and they're awesome where they put

497
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,480
cameras and like little baby elephants

498
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:20,400
and things there's actually one where

499
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:22,720
they made a langer which is a kind of

500
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,360
primate that lives in the far east and

501
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:27,679
it got knocked off a branch and fell and

502
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:30,080
broke and it you know the other langers

503
00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:32,160
who treated it like one of their group

504
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,440
thought it was dead so they all come

505
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:34,880
around and they're hugging and giving

506
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,919
each other

507
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,240
comfort because this little robotic

508
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:40,240
camera monkey died

509
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:41,600
i don't know why i felt obligated to

510
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:42,720
tell you that right now i guess it was

511
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,320
just kind of cute

512
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:46,320
it's totally relevant no the one i it is

513
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:48,880
relevant and it was adorable and and sad

514
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:51,520
at the same time um so no i i mean i

515
00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:54,240
don't really think we need to get into

516
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:56,799
his ai conscious and if it was would it

517
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,200
have morals and ethics is kind of that

518
00:18:03,029 --> 00:18:01,360
blade runner thing or like that that

519
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,039
google worker that just got fired

520
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:05,280
because he was convinced that you know

521
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:06,720
that and i read that interview and it

522
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,679
was

523
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,440
convincing you know i'd want to hang out

524
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:11,760
with this robot drink a beer and figure

525
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,559
out what it thinks about itself and ego

526
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:17,039
in a larger sense but

527
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:19,280
um yeah i mean even if we are creating

528
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,480
something

529
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,240
and sending it in

530
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:24,480
if we're trying to limit our impact and

531
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:26,400
we know it does have an impact i think

532
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:28,400
it's still our moral issue

533
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:29,360
it's not

534
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:32,799
physically doing things if we're

535
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:35,679
creating it and using it as this tool

536
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:39,200
um i think the the ethical

537
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:43,440
conundrum still still lies with us um

538
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,160
but

539
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,640
with that said i mean

540
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,320
i don't know it's so tough like even in

541
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:50,640
discussing this i i talked about this a

542
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,720
lot in my most recent book

543
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,400
but really in the same way this

544
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:56,559
conversation has unfolded don't really

545
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:58,720
have any answers i just think it's

546
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,160
important to talk about and sort of

547
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:02,160
frame our own perceptions because

548
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:04,720
there are no universal human rights

549
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:07,120
there are no universal ethics we don't

550
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:09,919
have that and it may not even be

551
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:12,960
possible we may never want that because

552
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:15,120
giving you know rights to this person

553
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:16,640
does it take them away from that person

554
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,039
and how you circle that square so

555
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:21,200
there's deeper issues involved

556
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:22,640
um but

557
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,799
but there are definitely

558
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,320
robots i don't think the greys are

559
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,840
robots i think they're biological

560
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:29,919
entities i think they're more evolved

561
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:33,440
humans but i do think they make and use

562
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:35,919
artificial intelligence um whitley

563
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:38,640
strieber is convinced he was abducted

564
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,679
initially by little droids little robots

565
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:43,360
it's undoubtedly the case in the

566
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:45,760
pascagoula incident with calvin parker

567
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:47,840
and charles hickson they described them

568
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:50,880
as robots as well in other cases as well

569
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,200
so i do think that's a component of it

570
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:55,200
but i don't think it really changes the

571
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:57,440
ethical issues at all

572
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:59,360
and again on that and moving into the

573
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:01,520
next question do you think that the

574
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:03,520
length of time that these beings may be

575
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,159
coming from would potentially lessen the

576
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:08,480
impact of any changes being made

577
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:10,720
obviously if i travel back in time 50 to

578
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,520
100 years civilization while it might

579
00:20:18,149 --> 00:20:15,440
look a bit dated would still be quite

580
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,159
recognizable but as you go back 500 to a

581
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,480
thousand one and a half then into tens

582
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:22,640
of thousands of years ago and you see

583
00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:25,280
human species devolve

584
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,799
is there less of

585
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:29,039
a feeling of that connection with with

586
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:31,360
those beings and i wonder if we have a

587
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:33,520
species that's coming from you mentioned

588
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:35,280
it could be 50 to 100 years but

589
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:37,120
conversely could be a hundred thousand

590
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:38,480
years in the future

591
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,000
would they even feel that connection

592
00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:43,200
with us at all that they would care

593
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:46,880
i think so um i do think there's

594
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:49,520
not just within humans but a

595
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:51,760
consciousness that we share with all

596
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:53,919
living beings

597
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:55,520
and and without sounding like too much

598
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,320
of a hippie um you can feel that with

599
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:00,320
obviously animals we've domesticated and

600
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:02,320
we've nurtured that pro-social

601
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:04,000
characteristic with

602
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:05,760
uh you can look at your dog's eyes you

603
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:07,600
know you can see the empathy in them and

604
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:09,039
how they treat other animals like the

605
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:10,960
langers i just mentioned you know we

606
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:12,320
that's something we share with them we

607
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,320
hug we kiss we

608
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:16,799
have closeness with each other in times

609
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,760
of grief the exact same way they do um

610
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,919
so so i do think even if they were from

611
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:24,000
a very distant point in the future like

612
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,520
we didn't share a common ancestor with

613
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:27,120
langers for

614
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,960
probably 25 30 million years

615
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:32,880
yet we still have that same

616
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:34,880
characteristic we still have that show

617
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:37,520
of love and empathy so even if we're

618
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:40,640
talking about 50 000 years 100 000 years

619
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:43,360
in the future i i do think that we share

620
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:45,919
enough with regards to our physical form

621
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:48,240
and our consciousness that we would not

622
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,880
be treated as equals obviously but

623
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:52,320
um

624
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:58,070
yeah i don't know i think it maybe does

625
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:01,280
give them a bit more of a pass but

626
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,200
i i don't think at any point they would

627
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:05,679
just stop seeing us as humans altogether

628
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:06,720
and just feel like they could do

629
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:08,400
whatever they wanted and it doesn't seem

630
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:10,559
like that from abductions either for the

631
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:13,840
most part one question that came in over

632
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:15,840
and over again from different listeners

633
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:16,799
was

634
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:19,200
why do you think any future civilization

635
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:21,039
would have to travel back

636
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:23,600
with our modern times being so well

637
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:26,080
documented albeit through the medium of

638
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:27,919
today we've got the internet we've got

639
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:30,240
you know books we had dvds that are on

640
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:33,440
the way out mp3s digital files and all

641
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:35,039
kinds of all kinds of weird and

642
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,440
wonderful mediums we're storing data on

643
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,360
why would they have to travel back to

644
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:41,760
document or observe

645
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:44,320
well i don't think they would for

646
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:46,640
more proximate humans

647
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,640
um however it's not really just about

648
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:50,480
studying ourselves there seems to be an

649
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:52,960
ecological component to this too

650
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,120
the first case study i talked about in

651
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:57,440
my new book mike and leo dwarshak in

652
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,880
south dakota

653
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,400
the the individuals they were

654
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,559
interacting with who were very much just

655
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,039
like us uh slightly more advanced but

656
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,280
still modern humans were picking up

657
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:09,120
grasshoppers in the same place over

658
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:10,240
decades

659
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,159
and it was because they were studying

660
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:14,400
ecology and especially after we started

661
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:16,480
launching nukes if if they inherit this

662
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:17,440
planet

663
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:19,200
they're going to want to know what's

664
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,280
happening to it leading up to them

665
00:23:26,230 --> 00:23:23,760
taking it over their stakeholders in the

666
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:26,240
future of this planet so i think that

667
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:27,120
helps

668
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:29,520
sort of explain this model a little bit

669
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,600
in a different sense that it's you know

670
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:33,200
i mostly as an anthropologist and i

671
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:35,039
acknowledge my biases all the time when

672
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:36,720
people are like why why would we go back

673
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:38,080
in time and this is essentially that

674
00:23:41,350 --> 00:23:39,520
same question

675
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:41,360
um but more about an archive thing that

676
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:42,960
we'll get to in a second

677
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:46,000
um but we we innately want to know about

678
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:48,640
our past that's what anthropologists do

679
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:51,120
we study humans now and throughout the

680
00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:53,840
past how did we get to be the way we are

681
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:55,760
why are our behaviors this way what how

682
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:58,159
did culture and technology evolve to be

683
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,919
more complex over time beginning with

684
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:02,000
the first stone tools three million

685
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:04,320
years ago um so we're neatly interested

686
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,080
in those questions and like i said if i

687
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:08,000
had a time machine i would be doing very

688
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,799
similar to identical things but it seems

689
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:12,400
to be much more than that

690
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,840
and there could be a time tourism

691
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:15,600
component as i talked about in my first

692
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,840
book it could be people paying to go

693
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:19,760
back and see these things firsthand they

694
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:22,400
know that world war ii happened but they

695
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:24,320
want to see something during world war

696
00:24:28,149 --> 00:24:26,080
ii they know the pyramids are there we

697
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:28,159
have records we have the rosetta stone

698
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:30,080
we can even translate what's being

699
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:31,760
written but people would want to see

700
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:32,640
that

701
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:34,559
so i think some aspects of the ufo

702
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:35,679
phenomenon

703
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:37,600
could be explained in that capacity too

704
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:38,400
but

705
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,600
uh

706
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:41,520
yeah we do have archives digital

707
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:44,080
archives for anyone who spends a lot of

708
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:47,039
time writing or podcasting or video

709
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:48,159
editing

710
00:24:54,310 --> 00:24:51,440
uh it is fleeting it doesn't exist in in

711
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,320
a physical form it's it's

712
00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:56,400
numbers it's digital and even if it is

713
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:58,840
in a physical form what's the thing that

714
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,840
destroys uh things most war

715
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:03,760
and every time we see this all the time

716
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:06,400
the when uh al qaeda went into iraq they

717
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:08,640
were blowing up you know monuments that

718
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:10,640
didn't fit with their conceptualization

719
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:13,600
of of religion and politics just here in

720
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:16,240
the united states some people blew up

721
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:17,919
something in georgia like some of these

722
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,679
georgia gates gates

723
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:21,919
yeah yeah and it just said something

724
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:23,120
they didn't agree with i don't know all

725
00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:24,880
the details i probably should as an

726
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,279
american citizen but they blew it up

727
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:29,200
they tried to destroy this thing because

728
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:30,720
it didn't fit with their worldview we do

729
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,400
this all the time

730
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:34,240
i've lived in france three times and you

731
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:36,080
walk around and you can see

732
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:37,679
all of the things that were destroyed in

733
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,480
world war ii and rebuilt a lot of them

734
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:42,559
are libraries archives things just and

735
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:44,240
that's not even that long ago you know

736
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:47,440
that's like 75 80 years ago so so i do

737
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:48,960
think even though we have the ability to

738
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:51,120
archive those archives aren't going to

739
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:54,080
hold up over a very long period of time

740
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:55,760
because they just haven't so far and i

741
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:56,960
don't care what

742
00:26:02,149 --> 00:25:59,600
form of digital digitization or any

743
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:02,159
other method we have to archive things

744
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,840
i i just don't see it lasting into the

745
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:05,440
deep future

746
00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:07,440
do you think it's likely we're seeing

747
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:09,919
beings coming from one future time

748
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:12,799
period or multiple future time periods

749
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:14,640
because in my head i think of time as

750
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:17,679
being you know a to b to c to d and if

751
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,679
people at point e have invented time

752
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:22,559
travel and coming back then surely f and

753
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:24,720
g and h and everything subsequently

754
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:30,149
uh i do yeah and and

755
00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:32,720
a comparison i like to make is is fire

756
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:33,919
and tools

757
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:35,360
like as i mentioned the first stone

758
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:38,320
tools were about three million years ago

759
00:26:41,110 --> 00:26:39,120
and

760
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,120
everything we have today mechanical

761
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,120
pencils the computers that we're talking

762
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:45,520
on right now are the direct descendants

763
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:47,919
of those first stone tools we've just

764
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:50,000
had dissent with modification and we've

765
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:52,960
increased the complexity of these tools

766
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:54,000
but

767
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:55,840
they're still built upon that same

768
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,159
foundation that was laid by

769
00:27:01,590 --> 00:27:00,480
most likely homo habilis 3 million years

770
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:01,600
ago

771
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,400
so

772
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:04,080
the same thing i think exists with time

773
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:05,039
travel

774
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,559
if we ever do

775
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:08,159
develop the capacity to do it and

776
00:27:12,549 --> 00:27:09,679
there's nothing in the laws of physics

777
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:12,559
that that prohibits backward time travel

778
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,640
so inevitably i think we will figure it

779
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:16,240
out and i don't think it'll be that long

780
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:18,080
anymore that's sort of a realization

781
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:19,520
from researching

782
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,200
uh doing research for this last book i

783
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,880
think it's going to be much sooner

784
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,559
possibly even within our lifetimes and

785
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:26,720
it feels crazy to say that after

786
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:28,399
focusing so much on the grays in the

787
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:29,919
first book but

788
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:32,559
um once we have that technology it just

789
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,279
like fire tools everything else that's

790
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:37,600
contributed so much to humans and our

791
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:39,520
development i don't think we're going to

792
00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:41,679
get rid of it i think it'll be around

793
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:44,799
for a very very long time and i do think

794
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:46,159
they're coming from different periods

795
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:48,799
and i do think that helps explain

796
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:50,799
the temporal variation that we see why

797
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:53,200
some look just like us some look like us

798
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,799
but slightly bigger heads that have

799
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:56,799
telepathic abilities which seems to be

800
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:58,880
an aspect of the mind or consciousness

801
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:00,240
that will develop

802
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,480
in the deeper future

803
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:04,000
and then once you get into the ones with

804
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:05,440
the really big heads the lack of

805
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,080
pigmentation small bodies some are even

806
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:10,640
described as not having sex organs being

807
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,919
asexual in their physiology um that

808
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:15,600
would seem to be a very distant point in

809
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:17,760
the future but still using time travel

810
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:18,960
technology

811
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,720
to get back to what is a more distant

812
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:22,480
point in their own past

813
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:24,080
what was the moment in your research

814
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:25,360
that you

815
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:28,000
decided to change that actually this

816
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:30,399
technology could be much closer than

817
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,480
than you first thought

818
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:34,480
it was pretty recent i was almost done

819
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:36,399
writing this last book i'd say it was

820
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:38,080
only in the last

821
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:40,960
i don't know six to eight months or so

822
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:42,960
i just and that's what was so great

823
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,080
about this approach um it took and and

824
00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:47,840
this wasn't a play on words though it is

825
00:28:53,269 --> 00:28:50,480
kind of a funny coincidence an abductive

826
00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:53,279
approach which is a method for doing

827
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,360
research where it's not like inductive

828
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,080
or deductive but you just look at

829
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,039
everything uh and try to make an

830
00:29:05,269 --> 00:29:02,960
inference to the best explanation you

831
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:05,279
try to have the most logical explanation

832
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:06,880
you're not saying

833
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:09,279
that you definitely know this thing

834
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:11,600
but it's kind of an occam's razor

835
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:13,279
situation where this seems to be the

836
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:14,799
simplest explanation so that's the

837
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,480
approach i took

838
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:18,640
and in writing this book i had 15 case

839
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:21,120
studies there's introduction conclusion

840
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:22,320
of course but

841
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:25,600
15 case studies and as i get closer to

842
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:27,919
the end and i'm reviewing all of them as

843
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:30,080
part of the editing process

844
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,840
these patterns emerge and that's the

845
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:33,840
main impetus for this book is to look

846
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,320
for patterns that could indicate what's

847
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:38,080
happening with this phenomenon and what

848
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,399
model might best explain it

849
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,480
and the pattern that emerged was just

850
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:45,120
how many of these are us

851
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,039
they're they're just like us they were

852
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:49,200
closed like us they communicate with

853
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:51,520
vocalized speech like us they have they

854
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,000
do exercises outside their ship when

855
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:56,000
they're collecting grasshoppers like

856
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:57,279
there's just so many things that are

857
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:58,480
similar to

858
00:30:01,830 --> 00:30:00,640
field sites where i've worked in various

859
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:01,840
places

860
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,120
um

861
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:05,279
it's just the technology they just seem

862
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:06,559
to be

863
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,559
so similar to us morphologically

864
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:10,720
behaviorally culturally but their

865
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:14,159
technology exists beyond our own and

866
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:15,200
um

867
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,799
technology evolves very fast it

868
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:18,480
accelerates it's not a linear

869
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:20,640
progression it's an acceleration more

870
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:22,320
people means more ideas and it moves

871
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,919
even faster so

872
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:26,399
um all of those things combined

873
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:29,919
made me think that yeah they're they're

874
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,840
us from a lot of different time periods

875
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,840
but they're also us from a much more

876
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:35,120
recent

877
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,000
uh or closer more approximate point than

878
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:40,399
what i previously assumed

879
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:42,399
one notion that's mentioned in the book

880
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:43,919
that was really interesting to me was

881
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,399
the craft may not only be future human

882
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:48,640
but potentially future human military

883
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:49,760
craft

884
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:52,000
what points to that as being a potential

885
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:57,110
well i mean

886
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,880
the military is our main driver of

887
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,240
um

888
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:04,320
research into advanced technologies and

889
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:06,399
advanced craft of skunk works going back

890
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:07,519
to the

891
00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:09,200
40s 50s

892
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:11,440
um and what's interesting and this kind

893
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,480
of plays back into the last question

894
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:16,399
that we were talking about

895
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:19,200
is is this technology may already exist

896
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:20,320
right now

897
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:21,919
and especially if we've been reverse

898
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,399
engineering craft vehicles going back

899
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:26,399
you know to the 1940s we've had a long

900
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:28,720
time to sort out how they work how they

901
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:31,039
fly the anti-gravity propulsion systems

902
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:32,720
but if they are in fact time machines

903
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,360
also how to manipulate space time

904
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:37,600
so that combined with the fact that with

905
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,880
skunk works the was sr51 i don't

906
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:43,120
remember what the blackbird or something

907
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:46,559
like that it existed something like 15

908
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:48,640
or 20 years before the general public

909
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:51,360
even knew that this technology was was

910
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,080
being developed so i think the same

911
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,240
probably exists now no nation is going

912
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:58,320
to give away their secrets or

913
00:32:02,070 --> 00:31:59,279
let

914
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:02,080
reporters come in or other government

915
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,760
entities come in and see what they're

916
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,840
working on at that moment because it

917
00:32:09,029 --> 00:32:07,360
they have a competitive advantage by

918
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:09,039
keeping that secret which is also

919
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:10,559
probably why we've kept the ufo

920
00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:13,360
phenomenon secret for 70 years much to

921
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:15,519
the disdain of those who would like

922
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,440
answers about it and who may finally be

923
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,519
getting some of those hopefully

924
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:22,000
um so yeah i think just

925
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:26,240
i guess what i was arguing is um the way

926
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:28,399
technologies have been developed and

927
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:30,080
then put out

928
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,159
if they are us it's probably going to be

929
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:34,320
the same situation in the future as what

930
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:36,320
it exists as now

931
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:38,159
i think in my head i've got the idea

932
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:41,760
that future humans coming back are

933
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,480
all one world united you know far more

934
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:47,039
technologically and spiritually advanced

935
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:48,559
with this kind of

936
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:50,960
much more peaceful intent i suppose but

937
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:53,360
the idea that it's a future military

938
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:56,080
coming back i suppose must change that

939
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:59,120
and can you see any benefit to a future

940
00:33:03,029 --> 00:33:01,200
military coming back to observers you

941
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:03,039
know what what could they potentially be

942
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:05,200
learning

943
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,840
um yeah i think so i mean you can always

944
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:10,240
learn from the past the the past is the

945
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,240
only thing we have to learn from and

946
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:14,159
unless this theory is correct in which

947
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:15,679
case we can learn from the future too

948
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:16,399
yeah

949
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:18,000
um but

950
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:20,480
but yeah i i think so and and just

951
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:22,960
studying cultures and the way

952
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:26,480
they change and interact a big part of

953
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:29,039
uh military is is also

954
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:30,159
human

955
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:32,399
we have to understand the people

956
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,559
that we're going to war with we have to

957
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:36,240
understand how to rebuild a lot of

958
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,840
especially cultural

959
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:39,760
anthropologists work with

960
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:42,000
the cia and other

961
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,159
members of the dod our department of

962
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:46,080
defense i think it's called the mod over

963
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:47,039
there

964
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,240
um to help rebuild reunite get around

965
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:52,799
political and cultural issues that grow

966
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:54,320
out of war

967
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:56,640
um but i kind of agree with you i don't

968
00:34:02,310 --> 00:33:59,760
think even if they are military vehicles

969
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:02,320
unless there's something they have to do

970
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,320
uh with us or to us

971
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:06,559
in the sense that i don't know i i

972
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:09,520
talked about this was kind of just uh i

973
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:11,119
i try to acknowledge

974
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:14,240
any speculations um to really tease

975
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,919
apart how

976
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:18,079
it it's not innately speculative when

977
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:19,520
you talk about the future and especially

978
00:34:22,629 --> 00:34:21,119
if we're talking about tangible things

979
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:22,639
coming back from the future that we can

980
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:23,839
study

981
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:24,720
um

982
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,280
but just looking at this this common

983
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:29,520
theme that keeps coming up among

984
00:34:33,909 --> 00:34:30,879
abductees

985
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:33,919
that that's about war they're shown

986
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:36,480
missiles and explosions and and

987
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:39,440
oftentimes in association with ufos so

988
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:41,359
i'm like what is that you know how do we

989
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:43,040
understand that and again when these

990
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:45,679
patterns emerge we should look at them

991
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,480
and try to figure out what's going on so

992
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:50,159
so i was kind of looking at it in the

993
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:51,679
context of

994
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:54,800
um these abductees but also

995
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:55,679
the

996
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:59,599
eschatological just learned this word

997
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:00,720
recently because i've been hanging out

998
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,800
with a lot of philosophers and religious

999
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:04,720
study people but these end times

1000
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:07,280
prophecies you know and is this all the

1001
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:08,800
same thing

1002
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,320
are the ufos the the revelations the end

1003
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:14,160
times thing all

1004
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,839
related somehow and and if so

1005
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:19,680
is there some sort of

1006
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:22,400
um selection process that happens do

1007
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:24,079
they wipe out large segments of the

1008
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:26,079
population and it's a weird thing to

1009
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:27,359
think about

1010
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:28,640
because

1011
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:31,599
after the first book everyone who i

1012
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,880
talked to

1013
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:34,800
was like well this is great it means we

1014
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:36,240
survive global warming and there won't

1015
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,640
be nuclear holocaust and for them to

1016
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:40,560
exist we must continue to exist

1017
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:41,839
obviously

1018
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:43,680
but then i started thinking that that's

1019
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,040
not true

1020
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:47,440
that doesn't have to be the case

1021
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:48,880
ninety-five percent of the human

1022
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:51,440
population alive today now could die

1023
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,680
and that five percent could then carry

1024
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:55,520
on into the future so

1025
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:57,200
so i don't know i i sort of explored

1026
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,359
some different scenarios in the context

1027
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,000
of different timelines or in the block

1028
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:04,240
universe model which is sort of where

1029
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:06,240
i've been approaching it from

1030
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:08,720
uh this entire time

1031
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:10,480
but also in the context of all of these

1032
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,880
doomsday scenarios all of these warnings

1033
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:15,119
and it's been coming up it sort of died

1034
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:17,119
down but for a while you know eight

1035
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:19,440
months to a year ago or so there are a

1036
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:21,119
lot of people talking about that talking

1037
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:23,920
about warring timelines and uh

1038
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:25,760
future humans from different timelines

1039
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:28,000
that have different agendas and so i

1040
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:29,920
felt like that should be discussed as

1041
00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:31,200
well

1042
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:33,119
again i didn't really offer any

1043
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:35,119
any answers because you can't with

1044
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:37,119
something like this and it would be

1045
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:40,160
disingenuous of me to try to offer

1046
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,599
answers for something that's currently

1047
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,520
unanswerable but i do think it's

1048
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:44,880
important to think about and talk about

1049
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:45,839
and that's really what i was trying to

1050
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,920
do with this this last book

1051
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:49,680
yeah on the timelines if anyone's

1052
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:51,920
interested in following that up

1053
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:53,599
michael masters yourself in our last

1054
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,400
interview

1055
00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:56,320
frank melbourne around the same time

1056
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:58,160
john ramirez yeah earlier this year and

1057
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,400
ross cool

1058
00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:02,640
really similar uh yeah i think it cited

1059
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:04,960
your podcast in that book because you

1060
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:06,240
talked about it with so many different

1061
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:08,079
people around that same time and you and

1062
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:09,839
i talked about it too yeah yeah it was a

1063
00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:12,079
really popular theme and um it's it's

1064
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:14,160
very marvel multiverse which is the kind

1065
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:16,800
of marvel and interweaving

1066
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,920
strange

1067
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,440
yeah so that's that's all kind of

1068
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:21,119
kicking off um but listen back to the

1069
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:23,040
abductions in this offering you

1070
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:25,280
mentioned there are a number uh 15 case

1071
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:27,280
studies some of the more famous ones

1072
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:28,800
including calvin parker who's been

1073
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:31,040
interviewed terry lovelace as uh

1074
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:32,640
hopefully coming on the podcast next

1075
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,800
month to reach out to again so that'll

1076
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:36,240
be really good uh looking forward to

1077
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:37,200
that

1078
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,680
what for you makes a credible case of

1079
00:37:44,310 --> 00:37:41,839
abduction because there are tens of

1080
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:44,320
thousands of stories yeah and in many

1081
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:47,359
cases they are just that stories so what

1082
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:49,359
for you make sure you jump out to say

1083
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:51,280
yeah this is something that makes makes

1084
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:52,800
a book

1085
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:54,640
that's that's a fantastic question and

1086
00:37:59,589 --> 00:37:56,800
obviously something i struggled with

1087
00:38:02,069 --> 00:37:59,599
tremendously because i couldn't discuss

1088
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:02,079
all tens of thousands i had to pick

1089
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:03,599
whittle it down i wasn't even sure what

1090
00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:06,320
number to do and or whether to do just a

1091
00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:09,520
short analysis of say 50 versus a deeper

1092
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,400
analysis of 10 or 20 and obviously i

1093
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:14,160
settled on the latter

1094
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:16,640
in this case but i i tend to follow the

1095
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:20,320
same general framework that um jaylen

1096
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:22,560
heineck laid out with his strangeness

1097
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:24,800
and reliability metrics

1098
00:38:29,829 --> 00:38:27,920
and they're not foolproof obviously um

1099
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:29,839
but but one of the things he kept coming

1100
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,640
back to is multiple witnesses

1101
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,560
so a lot of these

1102
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:36,960
have multiple witnesses people that

1103
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:39,200
sometimes were abducted together calvin

1104
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:41,200
parker charles hickson terry lovelace's

1105
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,320
friend toby

1106
00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:44,640
has just two examples

1107
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:47,119
that the two brothers the dwarshak boys

1108
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:49,040
uh didn't weren't abducted but were

1109
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:50,560
allowed to go on the ship they were

1110
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:52,480
allowed to see these things

1111
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:54,560
and and also um

1112
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:57,839
the reliability of the witness based on

1113
00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:59,200
um

1114
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,160
how they are viewed by friends and

1115
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:04,880
family i think that's important too and

1116
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:07,680
the the second case uduartena

1117
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:11,119
he was a a dutch minor i believe and his

1118
00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:13,359
his case actually happened only

1119
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:15,280
uh probably an hour from where i am in

1120
00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:17,359
butte montana just outside of helena

1121
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:18,560
montana

1122
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:20,720
and and the person who did the most

1123
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:24,400
research uh was uh warren astin he's a

1124
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:28,000
australian researcher and he talked to

1125
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:30,400
udu ortena's family and they they had

1126
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:31,359
nothing

1127
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:33,599
but nice things to say he was extremely

1128
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:36,880
reliable he's extremely trustworthy

1129
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:38,480
and the way he describes his account he

1130
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:40,720
wrote a letter to john glenn who was a

1131
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:43,280
famous astronaut and senator in my home

1132
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,880
state of ohio

1133
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:46,240
and and just

1134
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,160
you see all of these pieces together i

1135
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,240
don't think i think if we tried to boil

1136
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:52,720
it down to one thing

1137
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:54,079
it wouldn't work

1138
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:55,839
i don't think there's one thing i think

1139
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:57,760
we have to look at the whole we have to

1140
00:40:03,030 --> 00:39:59,680
take a holistic approach

1141
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:03,040
to the case um the the aerial school the

1142
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:06,560
zimbabwe uh case there's there's what 60

1143
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:08,720
kids that all saw this at the same time

1144
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:10,640
and all their pictures are consistent

1145
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:13,280
john max like get me to zimbabwe i'm

1146
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,880
going to check this out

1147
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,040
he he believed all of them and i would

1148
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:19,680
trust john mack in a heartbeat or

1149
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:21,680
something like that so so each one's

1150
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:24,079
different i guess and it wasn't just

1151
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:25,760
that they

1152
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:28,240
were were reliable but i chose them

1153
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,760
because

1154
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:31,440
they're they're from

1155
00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:32,240
like

1156
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:33,200
90

1157
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:40,800
the 1930s to

1158
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:43,280
the 2014-15

1159
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:45,200
tic tac encounters for instance they

1160
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:47,359
happen on five different continents so

1161
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:48,880
if we're going to look for patterns

1162
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:50,319
we're not going to be able to do that if

1163
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:52,800
we just focus on ufo encounters in the

1164
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:55,680
state of texas or wales or wherever

1165
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:57,760
it's got to be a broad temporal span

1166
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,480
it's got to be a broad geographic span

1167
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:01,760
and then and that's what we do as

1168
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:03,760
anthropologists in our research is we

1169
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:05,440
look for these patterns over time and

1170
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,640
over space

1171
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:08,720
so it was kind of an abductive

1172
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,599
anthropological approach where i wanted

1173
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:14,400
to have variable cases and and i didn't

1174
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,079
just pick ones that conform to this

1175
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,640
extra tempestual model either i think

1176
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:20,160
it's important to discuss betty and

1177
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:21,920
barney hill it's important to discuss

1178
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:23,760
the star map she claims to have been

1179
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:26,800
shown and and all of these things

1180
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:30,000
can help move us forward in expanding

1181
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:31,839
our own understanding of this complex

1182
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:34,160
and mysterious phenomenon and it was

1183
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:35,520
difficult

1184
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:37,359
there's certainly bound to be some form

1185
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,280
of bias too i just like some of these

1186
00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:41,040
cases but i find them more interesting

1187
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:42,400
so i want to write about them i want to

1188
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:44,079
research them in depth

1189
00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:46,079
and that that probably played into it as

1190
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:47,359
well um

1191
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:49,520
but i do feel like it's a diverse sample

1192
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,440
in time space what happened to people

1193
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:53,200
the types of beans they interacted with

1194
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,720
the things they saw

1195
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:56,400
the types of craft

1196
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,839
that they

1197
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,920
they observed

1198
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:01,680
so yeah i do feel like it's a good

1199
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:03,680
holistic representation of the

1200
00:42:07,750 --> 00:42:05,920
phenomenon on the whole

1201
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:07,760
within a lot of the abduction

1202
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:09,839
experiences you've talked already about

1203
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:11,839
the commonalities and the patterns you

1204
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,640
know the humanoid form the the language

1205
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:16,560
at times the clothing the advanced

1206
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:19,040
technology but what about the other side

1207
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,240
of that where

1208
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,560
messages seem very mixed sometimes we're

1209
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:24,400
hearing you know messages of of loving

1210
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:27,200
light sometimes it's pretty horrifying

1211
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,960
experience these abductions against our

1212
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:30,880
will you mentioned the brothers who are

1213
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,640
taken on board as many claim to have

1214
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,400
been some claim to have been taken on

1215
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:36,560
tours of of galaxies and you know the

1216
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:39,040
universe at large and then and then

1217
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:40,880
returned to where they were

1218
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,800
what does this point to for you that

1219
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:44,400
they're having a variety of different

1220
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:46,319
experiences with a variety of different

1221
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:47,839
beings

1222
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:50,960
yeah and that's a good point um

1223
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:53,040
there is variation and and i really

1224
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:55,040
tried to capture that

1225
00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:58,560
in this this study as well um and and i

1226
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:59,920
love whitley strieber's encounter

1227
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,359
because he saw

1228
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:04,079
four different types in his same

1229
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:05,760
encounter that he wrote about in his

1230
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:08,240
1987 book communion where there's these

1231
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,720
like battle droid type machines then

1232
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:12,880
there's the stocky ones that he referred

1233
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:15,040
to as sort of guards that would lead him

1234
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,520
around and then there was a more

1235
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:19,200
human-like one and then there was this

1236
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,839
more mantis like one and and that could

1237
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:23,920
be temporal variation as we talked about

1238
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,400
earlier it could be the continuation of

1239
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:28,560
geographic variation like what exists

1240
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:30,800
today among sub-saharan africans native

1241
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,319
americans

1242
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,560
indigenous australians etc

1243
00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:36,319
maybe that continues into the future it

1244
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:39,760
could be a.i versus biological or some

1245
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:41,599
combination of those which seems to be

1246
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:44,079
indicated in that in other case studies

1247
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:45,040
too

1248
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:48,240
but i i often default back to

1249
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,240
because it's currently our best source

1250
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:52,720
of information for this the dr edgar

1251
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:54,160
mitchell free study that i mentioned

1252
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:55,920
earlier the experiencer study all these

1253
00:44:02,069 --> 00:43:58,160
different contact modalities

1254
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:02,079
um because surveys are are wrought with

1255
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,119
methodological issues and you you can't

1256
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:07,520
dismiss that you can't get around it and

1257
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,720
especially when you're talking about

1258
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:10,640
something with high strangeness like the

1259
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:14,560
ufo phenomenon is your survey slightly

1260
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:17,760
less trusty because of that probably but

1261
00:44:22,470 --> 00:44:20,640
it it is a good study it spans many

1262
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:22,480
different language groups they they put

1263
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:23,920
these surveys out in a number of

1264
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:26,480
different uh languages

1265
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:28,720
and they had upwards of 4 000

1266
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,640
individuals i was told by ray hernandez

1267
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:32,400
that is closer to 6 000 now so it's

1268
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:34,079
continuing to grow their database is

1269
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:35,599
getting stronger

1270
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:38,240
so within that um

1271
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:40,160
as i mentioned the majority of beans

1272
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:42,079
that are seen are human and then it's

1273
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:43,599
followed by the short gray it's the tall

1274
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:46,079
grays and it's only five percent

1275
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:48,400
that are described as something other

1276
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:50,720
than a human form we have hybrids in

1277
00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:52,720
there too but if it's a hybrid of a

1278
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:55,440
human and a different kind of human then

1279
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:58,720
it's still a homonym as we would call it

1280
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:01,280
but then five percent are these more

1281
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:03,599
mantis like reptilian type so it's

1282
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,480
really a very small percentage we can't

1283
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:08,560
throw those out they're not all outliers

1284
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:09,920
something happened

1285
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,760
uh we need to take those into account

1286
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:13,520
but i i think

1287
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:16,400
for the purposes of of this research

1288
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:17,599
um

1289
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:19,839
just the fact that

1290
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:21,839
the top four categories are type of

1291
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:24,560
hominin in in and of itself

1292
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:26,560
is informative

1293
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:28,640
and it's it's a good starting point and

1294
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:31,520
these stats are are very useful for

1295
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:33,440
uh looking for patterns like i mentioned

1296
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:35,359
the ones who interacted with the more

1297
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:37,839
human type forms had more positive

1298
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:39,680
experiences the ones interacted with

1299
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:41,359
ones that are different

1300
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:43,760
such as the reptilians the the

1301
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:45,200
insectoids

1302
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:48,400
were much less positive um and then

1303
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:50,079
there's personal variation what happened

1304
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:52,160
to them if they get taken on a ship and

1305
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,760
shown all these cool technologies as

1306
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:55,119
young children yeah they're gonna love

1307
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:56,640
that if they have something shoved up

1308
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,720
their butt and fetus is extracted from

1309
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:00,400
them they're not going to like that very

1310
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:02,720
much but even some who do actually like

1311
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:05,200
i talk about jerry the case of jerry one

1312
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:08,160
of john mack's patients in my book she

1313
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:09,520
hated everything that happened her

1314
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:10,800
throughout her life

1315
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,839
but

1316
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:13,200
eventually realized that she was

1317
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:15,200
contributing to something really big and

1318
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:16,480
really important

1319
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:18,880
and that she was okay with that she she

1320
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:20,880
realized she was a part a small part of

1321
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,240
something much

1322
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:24,480
and it allowed her to sort of uh

1323
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:26,160
conceptualize what had been happening to

1324
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:27,599
her and come to grips with it

1325
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:29,359
essentially and that plays into the

1326
00:46:33,270 --> 00:46:31,040
ethical question

1327
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:33,280
we were talking about earlier too so

1328
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,200
i think to answer your question it's

1329
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,599
probably multifaceted but most likely

1330
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:38,960
has to do

1331
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:41,520
with the types of beans

1332
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,839
the personality of the individual

1333
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:45,839
contact your abductee

1334
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,720
and

1335
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:48,880
uh how different it was you know like if

1336
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:50,960
you came to the u.s i'd show you around

1337
00:46:55,349 --> 00:46:53,280
montana we'd have some beers it'd be

1338
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:55,359
somewhat similar to where you live

1339
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:56,800
you go to a

1340
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,960
visit a remote tribe in the amazon

1341
00:47:02,790 --> 00:47:01,040
nobody speaks english they're shooting

1342
00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:02,800
bows and arrows is their highest form of

1343
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:05,920
technology there's culture shock there

1344
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:07,520
even if you go willingly and you know

1345
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,960
it's gonna be different you still feel

1346
00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:10,640
that culture shock so i think there's a

1347
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:13,040
culture shock aspect to this too where

1348
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,560
the ones with far more advanced

1349
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:16,640
technology the big eyes always come up

1350
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,079
just this deep

1351
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,000
uh haunting

1352
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:22,480
pupils of these beings that you know

1353
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:24,559
fill the whole eye the the square of the

1354
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:26,880
white parts almost not visible

1355
00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:28,880
that seems to be memorable for people

1356
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,319
some enjoy it because they see this

1357
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:32,160
consciousness the eyes the window to the

1358
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:33,599
soul so to speak

1359
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:35,119
others are completely freaked out by it

1360
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,800
they can't even look at them in the eyes

1361
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,160
because it's just too much it's too

1362
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,000
different so i think there's a lot of

1363
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:42,319
things at play but um i think mostly it

1364
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:43,760
comes down to the individual their

1365
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:45,599
experience and the type of being that

1366
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:47,599
they encountered

1367
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:49,920
in your research did you see any trend

1368
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,480
that suggested abduction cases are on

1369
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:55,440
any kind of upwards trajectory or on the

1370
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:58,319
decline or is it somewhere in the middle

1371
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,359
that's a great question um no i i didn't

1372
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,119
really look at that i i don't even know

1373
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:06,000
if i can offer an answer because

1374
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:07,440
i didn't

1375
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:09,520
yeah i don't know it wasn't a part of

1376
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,880
the research i guess but it's an

1377
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:12,640
important question and it seems like

1378
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:14,559
something i probably should have added

1379
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,720
in the introduction or conclusions

1380
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:18,640
because it would be interesting to know

1381
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:21,680
like are we having more of these now

1382
00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:23,520
if if they happen more at certain points

1383
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:25,520
in the past why what was it about that

1384
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:26,400
time

1385
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:28,480
um so no maybe that'll be the next book

1386
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:29,599
i don't know

1387
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:31,680
i think discussing this on the podcast

1388
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,119
in the past i think it was myself and

1389
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,520
dan we mentioned that in the past

1390
00:48:40,390 --> 00:48:37,440
abduction cases like betty and barney

1391
00:48:42,390 --> 00:48:40,400
hill and calvin parker travis walton

1392
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:42,400
terry lovelace they stuck around because

1393
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:44,400
there was no social media so if these

1394
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:46,720
things are picked up in newsletters or

1395
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,359
books then they were the few cases that

1396
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:51,119
made it into the mainstream and they're

1397
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:53,440
stuck in that method lore there's a

1398
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:56,160
romantic notion with them whereas yeah

1399
00:49:00,309 --> 00:48:58,000
people can go online now and any number

1400
00:49:02,150 --> 00:49:00,319
of people on a daily basis on instagram

1401
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:02,160
twitter ticktalk could claim to have

1402
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:03,359
been abducted

1403
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:04,960
and you're probably just less likely to

1404
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:07,760
see it because it's it's 2022

1405
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:10,079
and yeah

1406
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:13,280
tweet is a lot less personable than a 40

1407
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:15,280
or 50 year old story and i just wonder

1408
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:17,599
is it just a modern thing that claims of

1409
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:20,079
abductions are much harder for people

1410
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:22,319
on mass to stomach than than ones that

1411
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:24,640
maybe happened a longer time ago

1412
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:27,440
yeah that's a really good observation

1413
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:29,520
and point and i i think there's a couple

1414
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:31,599
things going on there too maybe where

1415
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:33,680
yeah you're right we can report it more

1416
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,680
but then it also gets lost

1417
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:36,880
easier

1418
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:38,160
um

1419
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,920
are they happening more are they just

1420
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,359
being seen more

1421
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:43,760
um what i've found is a lot of people

1422
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,359
who seemingly shouldn't have an interest

1423
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:47,280
in this phenomenon but do

1424
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,720
eventually it comes out they had an

1425
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:50,559
experience and they're trying to figure

1426
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,839
it out without really letting people

1427
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:53,440
there's a lot of people

1428
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:57,040
um before um sorry stuff something else

1429
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:58,400
i wanted to throw in

1430
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,720
no no don't forget otherwise um there

1431
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:02,559
were a lot of people on twitter you've

1432
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:04,480
been a part of this group you know as

1433
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:06,960
long as i have um probably longer

1434
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:07,920
actually

1435
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:08,880
and

1436
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:11,040
they they were they're very much

1437
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,040
involved with like the the whole

1438
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:15,359
conversation and then eventually

1439
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,280
you find out they were abducted you know

1440
00:50:21,670 --> 00:50:19,440
they had this experience and

1441
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:21,680
and and that's that's cool i'm jealous

1442
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:23,200
you know i never have i've never even

1443
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:25,359
seen a freaking weird light in the sky

1444
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:26,720
or anything i thought i almost saw one

1445
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,240
recently and it turns out it's just a

1446
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:30,079
plane and it's very disappointing

1447
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:32,800
um but then i also wonder too if it's if

1448
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:34,400
it's acceptance

1449
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:37,440
if there's a recent trend because of the

1450
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:39,440
recent trend toward

1451
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:41,760
a broad-based acknowledgement of the

1452
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:44,800
reality of the ufo phenomenon that now

1453
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,720
people feel more comfortable and that's

1454
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,000
a big part of what i was trying to do

1455
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:50,640
with this last book is continue that

1456
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:51,920
continue

1457
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,240
to move beyond the tic tac yeah pilot

1458
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:56,480
seeing awesome that's great and

1459
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:57,839
we've learned a lot about that and it's

1460
00:51:02,069 --> 00:51:00,000
really pushed the conversation forward

1461
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:02,079
but people have been being abducted for

1462
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:04,960
potentially tens of thousands of years

1463
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,200
and still are and have been in recent

1464
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:08,960
times we should and that it's part of

1465
00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:11,440
the same phenomenon undoubtedly uh so we

1466
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:13,040
need to be talking about that too i

1467
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:14,800
actually dedicated my book to the brave

1468
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:15,760
people

1469
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:17,440
who come out and tell their story and

1470
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,640
especially those who were telling their

1471
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:21,200
story before ufos were even real which

1472
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:23,040
wasn't that long ago

1473
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:26,000
um but a friend of mine who i wrote

1474
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:28,640
about his experience ellis martin

1475
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:30,000
in the book

1476
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:31,680
as part of the

1477
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:36,870
he wrote me he read the book i sent him

1478
00:51:42,309 --> 00:51:39,520
a copy because i appreciated him telling

1479
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:42,319
his story to me uh and he was like

1480
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:45,280
finally you know after 40 years this is

1481
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,160
so validating to see my experience

1482
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:50,400
being written about my story told

1483
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:52,720
um and and i think that's the case for a

1484
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:54,640
lot of these people that they're trying

1485
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:56,720
to figure it out and he told me you know

1486
00:52:01,030 --> 00:51:59,119
he was subjected to these animal probes

1487
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,040
and one of the things that really helped

1488
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:03,040
him come to grips with it was thinking

1489
00:52:07,349 --> 00:52:04,720
of them as future humans he could kind

1490
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,359
of conceptualize them as human doctors

1491
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:09,520
um future human doctors in the same way

1492
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:11,680
we conceptualize modern human doctors

1493
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:14,079
but it pissed them off way more to think

1494
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,920
of them as these beings from a different

1495
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:17,440
planet who came here and picked him up

1496
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:18,960
and did all these things to him like

1497
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:21,520
that that was more violating in his mind

1498
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,720
and it doesn't matter what we think

1499
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:24,720
about objectively it's that person's

1500
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:26,559
experience that matters

1501
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:27,680
and i think

1502
00:52:31,829 --> 00:52:29,520
if we can get more people talking about

1503
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:31,839
this and and

1504
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:34,400
have an informed conversation without

1505
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,079
the stigma and shame

1506
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:38,319
that has been forced upon this

1507
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:41,040
topic for 70 years

1508
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:43,359
we can really start to grow and learn

1509
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:45,280
and see more patterns more patterns

1510
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:46,720
become apparent the more data is

1511
00:52:51,109 --> 00:52:48,960
available and yeah we still need to be

1512
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:51,119
judicious with vetting these we still

1513
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:52,960
need to make sure it's not just somebody

1514
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:54,960
telling a story or they'd have some

1515
00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:57,520
alternative agenda that we're not aware

1516
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:58,319
of

1517
00:53:02,549 --> 00:53:00,640
those things still need to be uh taken

1518
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:02,559
into consideration but

1519
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:05,040
it i i hope that's the case you know i

1520
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:07,200
hope more people are telling their story

1521
00:53:11,190 --> 00:53:09,040
and feeling comfortable about telling

1522
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:11,200
their story in this new climate that's

1523
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:13,520
grown up around the ufo phenomenon

1524
00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:15,280
as much as we've got that new climate

1525
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:17,119
there's still a block and a stigma for

1526
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,760
many the the x-files the green little

1527
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:21,359
men all that kind of stuff is still

1528
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:23,680
there for much of the general public on

1529
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,000
mass when the subject is discussed i

1530
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:28,480
know here in the uk i've not spoken to

1531
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:30,720
any of my colleagues at what about the

1532
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:32,240
subject who have heard about what's

1533
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:33,760
going on in the u.s in terms of

1534
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:35,680
congressional hearings and the media

1535
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,280
reporting being a lot more it just

1536
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,119
doesn't reach over here in any way shape

1537
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:41,200
or form and it's too bad

1538
00:53:44,069 --> 00:53:42,880
yeah hopefully more of them listen to

1539
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:44,079
this podcast and they would know a

1540
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:45,680
little bit more about it or other

1541
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,520
podcasts are available reading books no

1542
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:49,839
just just yours here's yours just the

1543
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:52,400
only one getting awards man yeah i could

1544
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:53,760
edit that one out but i'll leave it in

1545
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:56,400
i'll let that one spike leave

1546
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,079
do you think the model like the extra

1547
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:00,720
temper the extra temperature model is

1548
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:03,119
one that's ready to be discussed in a

1549
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,760
serious way for the general public when

1550
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:07,520
they're still struggling to grasp the

1551
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:09,520
idea of there's something else other

1552
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:12,160
than us more technologically advanced

1553
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:14,720
yeah absolutely and your

1554
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:16,880
your uh personal account earlier was

1555
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:18,960
that before we were recording or after

1556
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:20,240
the conversation you had with your

1557
00:54:24,549 --> 00:54:21,200
colleague

1558
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:24,559
uh it may have been no it was after it

1559
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:27,040
was after okay yeah so the listeners

1560
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:28,880
heard that and and i think

1561
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:30,400
what you said is important it's a

1562
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:32,160
different way of starting the

1563
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:34,079
conversation if it's just like yeah i

1564
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:36,319
believe in aliens

1565
00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:39,359
in one ear out the other but if if you

1566
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,119
articulate something that peaks their

1567
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:43,440
interest is maybe different is more

1568
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:44,960
understandable and i've heard that from

1569
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,880
so many people they're like i just i

1570
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:48,160
don't get how

1571
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:49,839
aliens would look so much like us and

1572
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:51,520
travel all the way here and just pick us

1573
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:54,160
up and fly home but there's so much

1574
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:56,240
about this extra tempestual model that's

1575
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:59,040
intuitive that makes sense that now you

1576
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,400
can maybe have a conversation with

1577
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:02,480
people you couldn't have otherwise like

1578
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:03,839
you just said

1579
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:06,400
um so yeah i think

1580
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:08,079
i think we are going in a a good

1581
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:10,960
direction and you know really we owe so

1582
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:13,760
much to leslie kane ralph blumenthal i

1583
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,319
always forget the other person

1584
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:18,240
yeah she was actually the first author

1585
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:19,760
on that i believe

1586
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:21,680
but the new york times article in 2017

1587
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:24,559
that that really blew open this

1588
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:26,000
conversation and you could tell

1589
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:28,240
instantly the impact that it had i

1590
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:31,040
started using that instantly i was at a

1591
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,119
retirement party and and somebody heard

1592
00:55:36,870 --> 00:55:35,520
about you know the research i'd been

1593
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:36,880
doing so i started writing this first

1594
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:40,000
book in 2012 way before

1595
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:42,480
ufos were real

1596
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:43,280
and

1597
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:45,839
so by 2017 when i'm getting ready to

1598
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:47,520
publish this book and have everything

1599
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:49,200
put together i can now have a different

1600
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,359
conversation with people than i could

1601
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:54,160
have in 2012 or even 2016 for that

1602
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,920
matter and since then there's just been

1603
00:55:59,589 --> 00:55:57,599
more and more and more and it's too bad

1604
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:59,599
that it's not reaching beyond i think i

1605
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:01,200
think it is actually i was interviewed

1606
00:56:07,109 --> 00:56:02,400
yesterday

1607
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:07,119
um for a tv news segment um by al arabi

1608
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:08,640
who broadcast throughout the middle east

1609
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:12,160
and north africa asking about nasa and

1610
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:13,440
and they're getting them getting

1611
00:56:16,789 --> 00:56:15,119
involved asking about the congressional

1612
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:16,799
hearings and things so

1613
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:18,559
that the information is getting out

1614
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:21,599
beyond the us too what people do with it

1615
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:23,040
at that point is a whole different

1616
00:56:28,150 --> 00:56:25,839
question but i think it's important to

1617
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:28,160
to let people know

1618
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:30,160
this is real and i feel like we're at

1619
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:32,960
that point and then the question becomes

1620
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:34,559
who are they where are they coming from

1621
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:36,720
or when are they coming from and and

1622
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:38,319
yeah i think people are ready to have a

1623
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:40,240
conversation about this time travel

1624
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,480
model unfortunately many of their brains

1625
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:44,640
were ruined by back to the future and

1626
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:47,760
other horribly made movies about time

1627
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:50,400
travel but there are good ones too

1628
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:52,000
there are ones that kind of adhere to

1629
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:53,520
the laws of physics as we understand

1630
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:55,359
them obviously these vehicles don't

1631
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:56,880
adhere to the laws of physics as we

1632
00:57:02,470 --> 00:56:59,119
understand them so there's going to be

1633
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:02,480
a revolution in our understanding and

1634
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:05,599
use of of technologies almost everyone

1635
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:08,160
agrees there has to be a unification of

1636
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,160
general relativity in quantum mechanics

1637
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:12,480
this sort of quantum gravity

1638
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:14,319
uh theory because we just we don't know

1639
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:16,799
how to fit those two together

1640
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,960
once that happens and this becomes

1641
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,319
reality

1642
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:22,319
we're gonna have to talk about it and it

1643
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:26,480
almost feels like this recent rise in

1644
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:27,359
the

1645
00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:31,920
this model

1646
00:57:35,109 --> 00:57:33,040
is

1647
00:57:36,789 --> 00:57:35,119
a part of that conversation for a reason

1648
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:36,799
we have to get people thinking about

1649
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:38,559
other interpretations we have to get

1650
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,440
people thinking about that potential

1651
00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:43,839
um explanation like what if this is our

1652
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:46,319
future what does that mean for the way

1653
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:48,480
we conceptualize time and space the way

1654
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:50,400
we conceptualize society and

1655
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:52,160
interactions between individuals from

1656
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:55,200
different time periods um so yeah i

1657
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:57,280
think it's it's a little bit harder and

1658
00:58:01,270 --> 00:57:58,559
i've

1659
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:01,280
definitely found to that over the last

1660
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:03,200
three years um

1661
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:05,520
because people don't

1662
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:07,200
and they people don't understand the

1663
00:58:10,309 --> 00:58:08,559
block universe model they don't

1664
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:10,319
understand time

1665
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:11,200
in

1666
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,400
a way that allows them to conceptualize

1667
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:16,240
just how this could happen and how easy

1668
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:18,640
it would be and what implications there

1669
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:21,359
are or what non-implications where we

1670
00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:22,960
don't have to worry about the

1671
00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:24,319
grandfather paradox we don't have to

1672
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:26,319
worry about bootstrap paradoxes and all

1673
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:27,920
of these things that were hang-ups for

1674
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:28,880
people

1675
00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:30,720
so much that i discussed much more in my

1676
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:32,240
first book for anybody that wants more

1677
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:33,920
information on that because i really

1678
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,440
don't want to explain the black universe

1679
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:37,680
for the thousandth time right now

1680
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,400
um so i think even with just a base

1681
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:43,040
level knowledge of where we are now like

1682
00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:44,559
we can't know what technology we're

1683
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,559
going to have 100 years from now we

1684
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:48,880
can't under we can't know what it's

1685
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:51,040
going to be like once we do unify

1686
00:58:55,589 --> 00:58:53,200
general relativity and quantum mechanics

1687
00:58:57,270 --> 00:58:55,599
but we can know where we are now and all

1688
00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:57,280
i can do as an author of these

1689
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,760
publications is to give

1690
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:01,920
an indication of this is where we are

1691
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:05,040
this is how we got here um and if these

1692
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:07,280
beans are from the future

1693
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:10,240
we can connect those those dots as well

1694
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:12,960
um but beyond that we're still limited

1695
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:15,200
in our own

1696
00:59:18,549 --> 00:59:16,640
understanding of time we know it's an

1697
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:18,559
emergent phenomenon we know there's

1698
00:59:22,230 --> 00:59:20,400
something more fundamental that time

1699
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:22,240
emerges from we just don't know what

1700
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:23,359
that is yet

1701
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:24,799
so we're all stuck with the same

1702
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:26,400
limitations but the more we can talk

1703
00:59:31,349 --> 00:59:28,880
about this is a real possibility i think

1704
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:31,359
the more we're going to be able to

1705
00:59:34,950 --> 00:59:33,119
really set the stage for that future

1706
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:34,960
that's yet to come

1707
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:36,559
when someone goes out and picks up their

1708
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:38,559
copy of the extra tempestual model

1709
00:59:43,829 --> 00:59:40,799
whether it's audiobook kindle or

1710
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:43,839
paperback hardback um take your pick

1711
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,520
what do you want them to take away from

1712
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:47,680
it at the end

1713
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,480
uh that's a good question

1714
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:52,480
i guess the same thing i took away from

1715
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:53,280
it

1716
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:55,040
because i i i didn't know what i would

1717
00:59:59,510 --> 00:59:57,839
find when i decided to rate this book

1718
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:59,520
and that's part of the abductive

1719
01:00:02,710 --> 01:00:01,040
approach you just

1720
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:02,720
put everything out there

1721
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:03,760
and and

1722
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:05,760
you see what see what sticks to the wall

1723
01:00:08,470 --> 01:00:07,280
you know throw all the spaghetti and see

1724
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:08,480
what sticks

1725
01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:09,520
um

1726
01:00:12,789 --> 01:00:11,599
but the main takeaway for me

1727
01:00:15,990 --> 01:00:12,799
i think

1728
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,470
the the future

1729
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:20,480
seems to be

1730
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:22,079
for the most part

1731
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:24,400
um

1732
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:27,040
loving empathetic you know

1733
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:29,119
there seems to be

1734
01:00:33,670 --> 01:00:30,720
um

1735
01:00:34,870 --> 01:00:33,680
a dissolution of a lot of our

1736
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:34,880
religious

1737
01:00:39,910 --> 01:00:37,760
political animosities um of course we're

1738
01:00:42,470 --> 01:00:39,920
only seeing a select

1739
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:42,480
few individuals that come back

1740
01:00:47,030 --> 01:00:44,960
and that's not a representative sample

1741
01:00:49,430 --> 01:00:47,040
and there's other issues involved with

1742
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:49,440
that as well but it's more about the

1743
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:51,599
conscious connection that people have

1744
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:53,680
with these beings and yeah you have the

1745
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:57,760
ones that don't um but the the majority

1746
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:59,520
they want more interaction whitley

1747
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:01,520
strieber used to go out behind his house

1748
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:03,920
and walk out calling for them begging

1749
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,680
for them to come back and interact with

1750
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:08,160
them and once you have that experience

1751
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:09,760
once you feel

1752
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:10,720
that

1753
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:17,440
a more evolved consciousness i i think

1754
01:01:20,630 --> 01:01:18,880
that's the main thing that i wasn't

1755
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:20,640
expecting to find that i did it's almost

1756
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:23,359
like like nietzsche's

1757
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:26,720
instead we can move beyond all of these

1758
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:29,040
religious squabbles that have led to all

1759
01:01:33,349 --> 01:01:31,680
these wars and and genocides and and the

1760
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:33,359
politics that

1761
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:35,520
run hand in hand with those

1762
01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:37,200
and and what was really cool actually is

1763
01:01:41,990 --> 01:01:38,960
um i wish i would have read this book

1764
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:42,000
before i published my last book i just

1765
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,760
read it a couple weeks ago but joe

1766
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:45,599
joseph mcmonagle's

1767
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:48,319
book the ultimate time machine

1768
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:51,119
he says on page i think it's 174

1769
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:54,640
that by the mid-century 21st century the

1770
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:56,240
one that we're in now it will be

1771
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:58,880
commonly understood that ufos are time

1772
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,400
machines

1773
01:02:05,029 --> 01:02:02,720
he says that in his book and he's remote

1774
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:05,039
viewing the future you know and he's a

1775
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:07,520
vetted remote viewer he was number one

1776
01:02:13,190 --> 01:02:10,240
in the stargate program in 1978 he was

1777
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:13,200
the beginning of this and i i think even

1778
01:02:17,190 --> 01:02:15,200
that like vecna character and stranger

1779
01:02:20,230 --> 01:02:17,200
things might be based off of

1780
01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:20,240
zero zero one which was him essentially

1781
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:21,920
but he's remote viewing

1782
01:02:26,069 --> 01:02:24,000
the near future in the year 3000 and

1783
01:02:27,190 --> 01:02:26,079
already by the year 3000 if we can take

1784
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:27,200
seriously what he says and he

1785
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:29,760
acknowledges that roughly you know 70 to

1786
01:02:35,029 --> 01:02:32,240
80 percent of what he says or remote

1787
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:35,039
views proves to be reality and this has

1788
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:37,039
been tested over and over and over over

1789
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:38,960
multiple decades

1790
01:02:42,549 --> 01:02:40,480
but it's cool that he said

1791
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:42,559
by the middle of this century we'll know

1792
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:43,599
their time machines will know their

1793
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:45,520
future humans would have loved to

1794
01:02:50,789 --> 01:02:48,640
included that in my chapter one uh deep

1795
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:50,799
dive into who else has said this idea

1796
01:02:55,829 --> 01:02:53,680
over the last 100 years or so but by the

1797
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:55,839
earth out 3 000 we resolve a lot of

1798
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:57,680
ecological problems a lot of social

1799
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:59,280
problems transportation problems we

1800
01:03:03,029 --> 01:03:01,200
start to build cities in a way that

1801
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:03,039
makes sense rather than based around

1802
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:05,520
cars you're much better at it over there

1803
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:06,960
in the uk and

1804
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:08,160
in europe

1805
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:10,079
uh but we suck at it here we're our

1806
01:03:13,750 --> 01:03:11,760
cities are horrible and they're stupid

1807
01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:13,760
and it makes no sense so by the year

1808
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:15,440
3000 we sort those things out we have

1809
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:17,440
social reforms our prison system is

1810
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:18,960
completely different it almost doesn't

1811
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:20,319
even exist

1812
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:22,640
um the political system and like you are

1813
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:24,319
saying you know we like to think of this

1814
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:27,039
more harmonious existence that does seem

1815
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:28,640
to be the case

1816
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:31,520
on some level in the human future

1817
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:33,920
and and that was something i i took away

1818
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:36,000
from it that that i was excited about i

1819
01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:38,079
i won't be a part of that future i'll be

1820
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:39,119
long dead

1821
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:41,520
way before it but it gives me hope for

1822
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:43,680
humanity i guess and and that was

1823
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:45,039
positive

1824
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:46,720
before some listener questions just let

1825
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:48,640
me ask you then if future michael

1826
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:50,480
masters could come back from the year

1827
01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:54,079
2042 so let's give us 20 years and it

1828
01:03:58,470 --> 01:03:55,760
could tell you what the human race has

1829
01:04:02,230 --> 01:03:58,480
learned about ufos in that time what do

1830
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:04,390
i mean i have so many biases and

1831
01:04:09,990 --> 01:04:06,880
answering that question it's

1832
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:10,000
it's impossible to say um

1833
01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:10,960
but

1834
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:13,440
i mean that's pretty much mid-century

1835
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,359
21st century so

1836
01:04:19,589 --> 01:04:17,280
i'm just gonna uh divert to joe

1837
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:19,599
mcmonical with that one

1838
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:21,039
and say

1839
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:23,440
machines their time machines yeah i'll

1840
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:25,520
let him answer that question for me

1841
01:04:30,390 --> 01:04:28,559
okay because i'm not a remote viewer

1842
01:04:31,109 --> 01:04:30,400
i wish i was it seems like it'd be super

1843
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:31,119
cool

1844
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:32,960
future doctor masters could be you never

1845
01:04:37,029 --> 01:04:34,880
know there's no time like that's true

1846
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:37,039
yeah actually i say there's no time like

1847
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:38,400
the present there may be a time like the

1848
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:41,200
future so you never know that's true so

1849
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:43,359
listener questions lots were sent in so

1850
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:45,359
i'm sorry if i don't get to yours some

1851
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:46,640
of them were in the body of the

1852
01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:49,119
interview and others were gonna you sent

1853
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:50,799
in similar ones and we start off with

1854
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:53,359
that malcolm and metal matt both asked a

1855
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:55,200
very similar question

1856
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:57,119
if these beings are aware of our

1857
01:05:01,589 --> 01:04:59,680
capabilities why would they be exposing

1858
01:05:04,069 --> 01:05:01,599
themselves to us for example the tic

1859
01:05:06,230 --> 01:05:04,079
tacs they seem to know or they should

1860
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:06,240
know that we can track them on radar

1861
01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:08,480
with you know satellites and such

1862
01:05:12,069 --> 01:05:10,319
why aren't they observing us in a more

1863
01:05:14,230 --> 01:05:12,079
stealthy way

1864
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:14,240
yeah well they do

1865
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:15,680
that as well

1866
01:05:19,990 --> 01:05:17,039
um

1867
01:05:23,029 --> 01:05:20,000
and in fact it seems

1868
01:05:24,950 --> 01:05:23,039
i've had this question proposed in a

1869
01:05:26,789 --> 01:05:24,960
similar way about the lights

1870
01:05:28,630 --> 01:05:26,799
they've got all this grand technology

1871
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:28,640
why do they need lights on the outside

1872
01:05:33,430 --> 01:05:30,480
and i think the lights have something to

1873
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:33,440
do with the manipulation of space time

1874
01:05:37,349 --> 01:05:34,400
from

1875
01:05:38,950 --> 01:05:37,359
many different things i've i've seen

1876
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:38,960
um but then you have things like the

1877
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:41,760
aerial school encounter for instance uh

1878
01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:43,680
the rental shim forest where it almost

1879
01:05:46,870 --> 01:05:45,760
seems like the craft

1880
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:46,880
uh

1881
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:49,599
had a malfunction of sorts and that had

1882
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:50,880
to come down

1883
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:53,200
and they fix it

1884
01:05:57,349 --> 01:05:55,119
both describe very similar things beans

1885
01:05:58,950 --> 01:05:57,359
moving around hovering

1886
01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:58,960
seem like they're making repairs to the

1887
01:06:02,309 --> 01:06:00,160
craft

1888
01:06:03,750 --> 01:06:02,319
so if there is some sort of cloaking

1889
01:06:05,029 --> 01:06:03,760
mechanism

1890
01:06:06,950 --> 01:06:05,039
maybe that breaks down in these

1891
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:06,960
situations where

1892
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:09,280
they have to fix a problem with their

1893
01:06:13,109 --> 01:06:10,880
cloaking mechanism or some other thing

1894
01:06:13,990 --> 01:06:13,119
and in the aerial school encounter

1895
01:06:16,069 --> 01:06:14,000
uh

1896
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:16,079
the children describe it as sort of

1897
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:18,240
disappearing and reappearing in the sky

1898
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:19,920
that could be an aspect of them entering

1899
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:21,200
that temporal space because that's what

1900
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:23,119
we'd expect of a time machine or it

1901
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:24,720
could have something to do with that

1902
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:26,960
cloaking mechanism breaking down

1903
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:30,160
and exposing them in different places as

1904
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:33,440
it's sort of on the skits or whatever

1905
01:06:38,589 --> 01:06:36,160
it could also be and this would seem to

1906
01:06:40,710 --> 01:06:38,599
be indicated by where we are

1907
01:06:43,029 --> 01:06:40,720
socio-politically with all of this that

1908
01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:43,039
they want us to know

1909
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,359
it's time for us to know and that's been

1910
01:06:50,309 --> 01:06:47,760
said over and over again

1911
01:06:51,750 --> 01:06:50,319
uh especially by those who are in

1912
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:51,760
military

1913
01:06:55,589 --> 01:06:54,079
that it's not up to us to tell the

1914
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:55,599
people

1915
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,920
about them it's up to them

1916
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:59,680
when we tell them

1917
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:01,680
and they and that would seem to indicate

1918
01:07:05,029 --> 01:07:03,200
that they know more they have more

1919
01:07:06,309 --> 01:07:05,039
information because

1920
01:07:08,309 --> 01:07:06,319
they know when this is going to happen

1921
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:08,319
already because in the block universe

1922
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:10,240
model it already has for them

1923
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:12,240
so i think we're getting close to the

1924
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,720
time when we do finally get to know and

1925
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:16,559
maybe they're sort of letting down their

1926
01:07:20,069 --> 01:07:18,000
guard a little bit because they want us

1927
01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:20,079
to be talking about this in preparation

1928
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:22,480
for this final disclosure or whatever

1929
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:23,359
that's

1930
01:07:29,029 --> 01:07:27,280
some of the children that ariel also

1931
01:07:30,789 --> 01:07:29,039
mentioned that when the the craft had

1932
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:30,799
landed it looked like one of the beings

1933
01:07:34,230 --> 01:07:32,559
was stuck in a loop they could see it

1934
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:34,240
running and it was going back and then

1935
01:07:38,549 --> 01:07:36,079
same part again and again like you talk

1936
01:07:39,910 --> 01:07:38,559
about that temporal space yeah maybe the

1937
01:07:41,670 --> 01:07:39,920
being's not actually doing that it's

1938
01:07:44,470 --> 01:07:41,680
just what they're seeing because they

1939
01:07:46,789 --> 01:07:44,480
are exactly yeah and i talk about that

1940
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:46,799
again with um

1941
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:49,920
it was the one in the uk manchester uk i

1942
01:07:52,710 --> 01:07:51,920
forget her name linda jones i think was

1943
01:07:54,789 --> 01:07:52,720
her no

1944
01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:54,799
name where that same that same sort of

1945
01:07:58,309 --> 01:07:56,720
thing happened with this manipulation of

1946
01:07:59,829 --> 01:07:58,319
space-time in and around these crafts

1947
01:08:02,069 --> 01:07:59,839
and that was a big focus

1948
01:08:04,150 --> 01:08:02,079
of this last book is that

1949
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:04,160
that space-time manipulation aspect of

1950
01:08:08,789 --> 01:08:06,799
it talking about how put offs research

1951
01:08:10,950 --> 01:08:08,799
um but also the g-forces which is

1952
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,960
something i neglected to put in the

1953
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:12,720
first book is if they're manipulating

1954
01:08:17,669 --> 01:08:15,200
space-time us as an outside observer

1955
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:17,679
sees this thing doing 90 degree turns

1956
01:08:21,669 --> 01:08:19,839
very very quickly but within the frame

1957
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:21,679
of reference of that craft it could be a

1958
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:24,880
very slow stop and re-acceleration it's

1959
01:08:29,749 --> 01:08:27,120
just our flawed perception outside the

1960
01:08:31,110 --> 01:08:29,759
temporal reference frame of this craft

1961
01:08:32,550 --> 01:08:31,120
itself so

1962
01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:32,560
there's a lot of things like that that i

1963
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:35,199
think we need to take into consideration

1964
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:37,520
um when when talking about not just

1965
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:39,440
their ability to move in and out of time

1966
01:08:43,349 --> 01:08:41,600
but how they can manipulate space and

1967
01:08:46,070 --> 01:08:43,359
time in and around these ships and the

1968
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:46,080
aerial school is a good example of that

1969
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:48,000
i won't lie sometimes that delorean

1970
01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:49,839
going 88 miles an hour does seem much

1971
01:08:52,950 --> 01:08:51,679
simpler so

1972
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:52,960
i just wanted to go back to the future

1973
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:54,960
what's a flex capacitor though you can

1974
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:57,199
explain a flex capacitor to everybody

1975
01:09:01,430 --> 01:08:58,960
that that was where they could just cut

1976
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:01,440
it off and say yeah doc figured this out

1977
01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:04,080
we don't have to explain it

1978
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:09,030
that could be egg on your face in 20

1979
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:11,040
years time yeah that's true no that's

1980
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:13,199
true i got to be careful what i said you

1981
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:14,799
just stick some garbage in this flux

1982
01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:16,640
capacitor and it lets you go that's

1983
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:17,679
that's

1984
01:09:21,430 --> 01:09:19,679
um paul smith had a really good question

1985
01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:21,440
that surely if they've discovered time

1986
01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:23,520
travel it would make more sense to go

1987
01:09:28,470 --> 01:09:25,920
back and give us technology to aid a

1988
01:09:30,709 --> 01:09:28,480
faster evolution that would then also

1989
01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:30,719
increase their future capabilities which

1990
01:09:34,789 --> 01:09:32,480
is an interesting idea

1991
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:34,799
or is the potential that by having

1992
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:36,560
already done that

1993
01:09:40,550 --> 01:09:38,640
mankind used it for destruction and not

1994
01:09:41,510 --> 01:09:40,560
the benefit of mankind

1995
01:09:43,269 --> 01:09:41,520
and

1996
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:43,279
trying to put that right or at least fix

1997
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:45,359
it given thinking about that that makes

1998
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:46,640
me think of

1999
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:48,719
did we get the technology from roswell

2000
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:50,400
crashes and other crashes that happened

2001
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:52,080
throughout time and they're almost

2002
01:09:56,550 --> 01:09:53,040
trying to

2003
01:10:01,750 --> 01:09:59,110
yeah absolutely um

2004
01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:01,760
and and actually a friend of mine he was

2005
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:04,400
at the esslin institute uh down in

2006
01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:06,640
california this last week as well

2007
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:10,000
uh hussein ali agrama and he's a

2008
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:11,600
cultural anthropologist actually at the

2009
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:13,679
university of chicago and i'm allowed to

2010
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:14,960
finally talk about him i've known him

2011
01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:17,360
for three years but he was kind of

2012
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:19,600
being cautious around this ufo question

2013
01:10:23,110 --> 01:10:21,440
but he has some great ideas

2014
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:23,120
related to this and he he sort of

2015
01:10:27,270 --> 01:10:25,120
discusses that exact same thing and he

2016
01:10:29,110 --> 01:10:27,280
even coined a term for it and i always

2017
01:10:30,709 --> 01:10:29,120
screw it up and i hope he's not

2018
01:10:32,950 --> 01:10:30,719
listening because

2019
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:32,960
uh i literally had him repeat it like

2020
01:10:36,630 --> 01:10:34,560
seven times because i screwed it up in

2021
01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:36,640
our talk too it's like a super

2022
01:10:40,709 --> 01:10:39,360
technological singularity or something

2023
01:10:43,510 --> 01:10:40,719
we have people going to the future and

2024
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:43,520
bringing technology back in time it's

2025
01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:46,400
not even theirs going back but they can

2026
01:10:49,990 --> 01:10:47,920
go to the future

2027
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:50,000
and bring information back that then

2028
01:10:53,990 --> 01:10:52,400
becomes a part of that future relative

2029
01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:54,000
to those people so

2030
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:55,760
you know roswell could be an example of

2031
01:10:59,910 --> 01:10:57,280
that too and we we call this the

2032
01:11:02,550 --> 01:10:59,920
bootstrap paradox and it's not a paradox

2033
01:11:03,990 --> 01:11:02,560
and we need to stop calling them these

2034
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:04,000
especially in the block universe because

2035
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:05,520
they don't exist

2036
01:11:09,870 --> 01:11:08,080
um but it doesn't matter if that

2037
01:11:14,149 --> 01:11:09,880
technology made its way to roswell in

2038
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:14,159
1947 and say it came from the year 2300

2039
01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:15,360
um

2040
01:11:19,350 --> 01:11:17,280
it was always going to do that it was

2041
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:19,360
always going to be there and we

2042
01:11:24,390 --> 01:11:21,760
eventually make the thing in the year

2043
01:11:26,310 --> 01:11:24,400
2400 that then goes back

2044
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:26,320
and nobody created it the people in the

2045
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:28,000
past were gifted this technology the

2046
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:29,760
people in the future didn't create it

2047
01:11:33,669 --> 01:11:31,840
because it was the result of the reverse

2048
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:33,679
engineering of that machine but it

2049
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:35,760
doesn't matter if there's no creator it

2050
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:38,400
still exists and it's always existed as

2051
01:11:42,870 --> 01:11:41,280
part of this this cyclic loop in space

2052
01:11:45,189 --> 01:11:42,880
time you know these connections and

2053
01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:45,199
block times bridge so to speak

2054
01:11:49,430 --> 01:11:48,080
um so yeah i and i think the other part

2055
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:49,440
of that question

2056
01:11:52,310 --> 01:11:50,800
it's funny we're just talking about flex

2057
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:52,320
capacitors is sort of the back to the

2058
01:11:59,350 --> 01:11:55,760
future two model where they they go back

2059
01:12:01,590 --> 01:11:59,360
and uh biff gives himself like a a bunch

2060
01:12:03,990 --> 01:12:01,600
of results of sporting events that he

2061
01:12:06,070 --> 01:12:04,000
can bet on almanac yeah yeah sports

2062
01:12:07,590 --> 01:12:06,080
almanac and he creates this dystopian

2063
01:12:09,830 --> 01:12:07,600
future and then they're trying to fix

2064
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:09,840
that you know those scenarios

2065
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:13,360
only play out in the context of changing

2066
01:12:18,390 --> 01:12:15,360
the past and we can't change the past

2067
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:18,400
that's that's written as it is and i

2068
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:21,600
give a number of examples of why and how

2069
01:12:25,669 --> 01:12:23,679
that is the case both logically and as

2070
01:12:27,189 --> 01:12:25,679
as it's understood by philosophers and

2071
01:12:29,110 --> 01:12:27,199
physicists because philosophers have

2072
01:12:30,790 --> 01:12:29,120
been discussing time way longer than

2073
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:30,800
physicists have so we have to include

2074
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:33,760
them in the conversation as well

2075
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:35,280
but there's a lot of reasons that can't

2076
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:38,159
happen as far as fixing something

2077
01:12:42,950 --> 01:12:40,640
unless you always fixed it or avoided

2078
01:12:45,270 --> 01:12:42,960
something that was always going to not

2079
01:12:47,189 --> 01:12:45,280
happen in which case it can and if that

2080
01:12:49,110 --> 01:12:47,199
sounds complicated just read the book

2081
01:12:50,550 --> 01:12:49,120
because i don't really

2082
01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:50,560
have any other way to explain it right

2083
01:12:52,790 --> 01:12:51,280
now

2084
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:52,800
i would recommend reading the book or

2085
01:12:55,830 --> 01:12:54,080
listening to the book anyways some

2086
01:12:57,910 --> 01:12:55,840
people like to do um

2087
01:12:59,830 --> 01:12:57,920
i'm a fan of audio books yeah i had the

2088
01:13:01,430 --> 01:12:59,840
audiobook of this from yourself but i'll

2089
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:01,440
be picking up the the copy as well the

2090
01:13:08,149 --> 01:13:02,560
hard copy

2091
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:08,159
anyway um question from joe he asks have

2092
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:09,840
you had any of the time travel

2093
01:13:14,310 --> 01:13:12,320
hypothesis confirmed by insiders

2094
01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:14,320
government or military people he

2095
01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:15,600
understands you're not you're an

2096
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:16,960
academic and you're not part of any

2097
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:18,640
secret programmes but you'd be

2098
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:20,880
interested to know if you if and who you

2099
01:13:25,669 --> 01:13:23,760
may be talking to in those circles

2100
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:25,679
yeah you know and it'd be fun to say

2101
01:13:30,870 --> 01:13:28,080
like you know i've got these ndes and i

2102
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:30,880
know all these top cia officials i don't

2103
01:13:34,790 --> 01:13:33,360
yeah he is right or she um i didn't hear

2104
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:34,800
the name

2105
01:13:40,390 --> 01:13:38,080
um but with that said i have been

2106
01:13:41,430 --> 01:13:40,400
contacted by people

2107
01:13:44,830 --> 01:13:41,440
who

2108
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,840
claim to have worked very high up in

2109
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:46,640
government

2110
01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:48,320
who

2111
01:13:53,830 --> 01:13:51,840
yes said i am right um and have told me

2112
01:13:55,910 --> 01:13:53,840
things that

2113
01:13:58,630 --> 01:13:55,920
i should have known

2114
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:58,640
and didn't think about

2115
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:01,120
but once they told me it seemed obvious

2116
01:14:04,790 --> 01:14:03,440
and i don't know how someone who's

2117
01:14:05,910 --> 01:14:04,800
studied this since they were eight years

2118
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:05,920
old

2119
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:07,440
could have missed something like that

2120
01:14:12,070 --> 01:14:09,040
and how this other person could know

2121
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:12,080
that and tell me unless they knew

2122
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:13,199
something

2123
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:15,679
so obviously it's hard to vet people

2124
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:18,800
um who reach out to you but yeah i have

2125
01:14:23,830 --> 01:14:21,600
been contacted by quite a few people

2126
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:23,840
and maybe even if they didn't say

2127
01:14:27,270 --> 01:14:25,600
yeah you're right or

2128
01:14:30,550 --> 01:14:27,280
um

2129
01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:30,560
uh this is is definitely the case

2130
01:14:33,910 --> 01:14:32,640
there's some indication that it's worth

2131
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:33,920
pursuing

2132
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:36,080
more and and that has definitely helped

2133
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:37,440
keep me going

2134
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:40,640
um but no i don't claim to have any

2135
01:14:45,990 --> 01:14:43,440
any top insider information or contacts

2136
01:14:48,630 --> 01:14:46,000
i got nothing i'm i'm flying solo here

2137
01:14:50,070 --> 01:14:48,640
and it's it's frustrating at times but

2138
01:14:52,390 --> 01:14:50,080
and i'm bound to get things wrong you

2139
01:14:54,310 --> 01:14:52,400
know even if this is right

2140
01:14:55,590 --> 01:14:54,320
i'm bound to get things wrong because i

2141
01:14:57,270 --> 01:14:55,600
can't know

2142
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:57,280
the reality of the situation like

2143
01:15:02,070 --> 01:14:59,600
someone who does know the reality of the

2144
01:15:03,430 --> 01:15:02,080
situation so but my stance is

2145
01:15:06,950 --> 01:15:03,440
theoretical

2146
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:06,960
um i'm i'm making inferences based on

2147
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:09,760
patterns and logic but i'm bound to get

2148
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:12,000
things wrong in that process but

2149
01:15:15,910 --> 01:15:13,600
uh yeah there have been encouraging

2150
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:15,920
words from people who claim to have been

2151
01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:17,440
high up in

2152
01:15:21,189 --> 01:15:18,960
positions of government

2153
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:21,199
without giving too much away can you can

2154
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:23,360
you elaborate or expand on something

2155
01:15:27,110 --> 01:15:25,199
that you talk about you overlooked and

2156
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:27,120
then has been pointed out to you as you

2157
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:28,560
should have noticed this and then you've

2158
01:15:33,270 --> 01:15:31,280
been able to go ah yeah yeah absolutely

2159
01:15:35,430 --> 01:15:33,280
what i just said and i try to work this

2160
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:35,440
in to as many conversations as possible

2161
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:38,880
now because it it makes sense and i i

2162
01:15:42,310 --> 01:15:41,440
completely spaced it was the g-forces

2163
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:42,320
thing

2164
01:15:47,030 --> 01:15:44,400
it was an individual who claims to have

2165
01:15:49,270 --> 01:15:47,040
been retired so he's later life and you

2166
01:15:53,430 --> 01:15:49,280
know probably runs less risk and and

2167
01:15:55,590 --> 01:15:53,440
didn't tell me anything beyond um you i

2168
01:15:57,430 --> 01:15:55,600
think you should consider this thing

2169
01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:57,440
and explain that whole g-forces thing

2170
01:16:02,229 --> 01:16:00,000
that's they're manipulating space-time

2171
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:02,239
to the extent that what they're

2172
01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:03,920
experiencing is different than what we

2173
01:16:07,590 --> 01:16:05,040
see

2174
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:07,600
and it's how they can run circles around

2175
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:09,120
us that's how they can get back to the

2176
01:16:13,830 --> 01:16:11,920
cap point with uh you know the nimitz

2177
01:16:16,149 --> 01:16:13,840
case instantly and

2178
01:16:18,310 --> 01:16:16,159
and and fly at such tremendous speed is

2179
01:16:21,830 --> 01:16:18,320
they're just slowing us down

2180
01:16:24,310 --> 01:16:21,840
we we become um the human trying to swat

2181
01:16:27,110 --> 01:16:24,320
the fly the fly sees us way faster has

2182
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:27,120
time to just slowly fly away but to us

2183
01:16:31,669 --> 01:16:29,120
it's like how did i miss that you know

2184
01:16:32,950 --> 01:16:31,679
it moved so fast and so i talk about

2185
01:16:35,110 --> 01:16:32,960
what i like to refer to this as

2186
01:16:37,510 --> 01:16:35,120
biorelativity because there is clearly

2187
01:16:39,590 --> 01:16:37,520
this difference among species with

2188
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:39,600
regard to how they perceive time a barn

2189
01:16:43,510 --> 01:16:41,840
swallow flying through rafters you put a

2190
01:16:45,270 --> 01:16:43,520
jet pack on a human and have them try to

2191
01:16:47,110 --> 01:16:45,280
they even shrink them down to that size

2192
01:16:48,950 --> 01:16:47,120
our brains just haven't evolved to live

2193
01:16:51,430 --> 01:16:48,960
life fast enough to do that without

2194
01:16:52,630 --> 01:16:51,440
smashing our faces against the rafters

2195
01:16:54,950 --> 01:16:52,640
so

2196
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:54,960
i think what they're doing is slowing us

2197
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:56,640
down to the extent even if we're

2198
01:16:59,030 --> 01:16:57,920
shooting missiles at them they're just

2199
01:17:00,149 --> 01:16:59,040
like okay

2200
01:17:02,790 --> 01:17:00,159
that was dumb why are you trying to

2201
01:17:05,430 --> 01:17:02,800
start a fight with advanced beans but

2202
01:17:08,229 --> 01:17:05,440
they can just slowly move out of the way

2203
01:17:10,229 --> 01:17:08,239
because we perceive time differently so

2204
01:17:11,910 --> 01:17:10,239
as we perceive them outside of their

2205
01:17:15,669 --> 01:17:11,920
reference frame that instant

2206
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:15,679
acceleration deceleration 80 000 feet to

2207
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:18,480
sea level and like 1.76 seconds or

2208
01:17:22,709 --> 01:17:21,280
whatever the su calculated it

2209
01:17:24,870 --> 01:17:22,719
to be

2210
01:17:26,310 --> 01:17:24,880
that was told to me by someone who

2211
01:17:28,630 --> 01:17:26,320
claimed to be

2212
01:17:29,830 --> 01:17:28,640
uh an ex cia

2213
01:17:31,669 --> 01:17:29,840
or

2214
01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:31,679
some someone involved in government i

2215
01:17:35,750 --> 01:17:33,360
don't remember what it was but right

2216
01:17:37,510 --> 01:17:35,760
after my first book came out

2217
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:37,520
and i was like damn that makes a lot of

2218
01:17:42,470 --> 01:17:39,840
sense how did i miss that and how do you

2219
01:17:43,510 --> 01:17:42,480
know that unless you actually

2220
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:43,520
are

2221
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:45,360
or were affiliated with these

2222
01:17:49,270 --> 01:17:47,280
individuals so

2223
01:17:51,189 --> 01:17:49,280
again i can't ever know but that's that

2224
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:51,199
was a hole in my argument that was

2225
01:17:55,110 --> 01:17:53,280
filled by someone who claimed to have

2226
01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:55,120
had direct knowledge

2227
01:17:59,189 --> 01:17:57,360
um question expanding slightly on what

2228
01:18:01,110 --> 01:17:59,199
you mentioned on the the tic tacs uh

2229
01:18:02,310 --> 01:18:01,120
from tree of life uh tree of life says

2230
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:02,320
thank you for your thought-provoking

2231
01:18:06,550 --> 01:18:04,560
books dr masters you've done a great job

2232
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:06,560
of explaining the various paradoxes in

2233
01:18:10,870 --> 01:18:08,880
ways a lay person could understand

2234
01:18:13,030 --> 01:18:10,880
question what's your take on why time

2235
01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:13,040
travelers would spend so much time

2236
01:18:17,990 --> 01:18:15,679
looking around our navy and navy ships

2237
01:18:19,669 --> 01:18:18,000
airmen reported they saw the tax daily

2238
01:18:21,990 --> 01:18:19,679
we hear from people like louis lozando

2239
01:18:24,229 --> 01:18:22,000
these incursions are still happening now

2240
01:18:26,070 --> 01:18:24,239
it's sometimes hovering there for hours

2241
01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:26,080
what information of value could they be

2242
01:18:32,310 --> 01:18:28,800
gathering in that time

2243
01:18:34,149 --> 01:18:32,320
yeah that's a fantastic question um

2244
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:34,159
i think because

2245
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:35,600
war

2246
01:18:42,550 --> 01:18:38,159
and destruction seems to be

2247
01:18:48,630 --> 01:18:44,709
so much a part of of the warnings that

2248
01:18:49,990 --> 01:18:48,640
come the the uh eschatological i'm just

2249
01:18:51,430 --> 01:18:50,000
gonna use that word all the time now

2250
01:18:54,630 --> 01:18:51,440
because it's fun to say

2251
01:18:56,550 --> 01:18:54,640
um these end times prophecies

2252
01:18:59,189 --> 01:18:56,560
that clearly

2253
01:19:00,950 --> 01:18:59,199
is related to our military technology

2254
01:19:03,990 --> 01:19:00,960
that exists today

2255
01:19:06,390 --> 01:19:04,000
uh the same thing with the ufos in uh

2256
01:19:07,990 --> 01:19:06,400
nuclear silos malmstrom and nino air

2257
01:19:09,030 --> 01:19:08,000
force base and talk about those in the

2258
01:19:11,110 --> 01:19:09,040
book

2259
01:19:13,430 --> 01:19:11,120
in this context as well

2260
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:13,440
it almost seems to me

2261
01:19:17,030 --> 01:19:15,120
like

2262
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:17,040
what we seem to them

2263
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:19,600
is a bunch of three-year-olds with

2264
01:19:22,709 --> 01:19:21,679
knives and firecrackers

2265
01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:22,719
and

2266
01:19:27,590 --> 01:19:24,960
for them to

2267
01:19:29,189 --> 01:19:27,600
know if something happens that they

2268
01:19:30,709 --> 01:19:29,199
could try to stop before it happens

2269
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:30,719
because again you can't change the past

2270
01:19:34,310 --> 01:19:32,400
once something's already happened and i

2271
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:34,320
discussed this a lot

2272
01:19:39,270 --> 01:19:37,040
my most recent book with the the nuclear

2273
01:19:41,189 --> 01:19:39,280
silos um

2274
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:41,199
and different timelines the multiverse

2275
01:19:45,270 --> 01:19:43,199
versus the block universe

2276
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:45,280
is is maybe they're just monitoring us

2277
01:19:48,550 --> 01:19:47,440
closely the same way you do on the

2278
01:19:50,390 --> 01:19:48,560
fourth of july we always go to this

2279
01:19:52,470 --> 01:19:50,400
fourth of july celebrations and it's

2280
01:19:53,830 --> 01:19:52,480
this massive horde

2281
01:19:56,070 --> 01:19:53,840
of people

2282
01:19:57,990 --> 01:19:56,080
and and fireworks are like at the heart

2283
01:19:59,830 --> 01:19:58,000
of the culture in butte montana it's

2284
01:20:02,149 --> 01:19:59,840
insane people spend

2285
01:20:03,510 --> 01:20:02,159
thousands and thousands of dollars

2286
01:20:05,590 --> 01:20:03,520
individually

2287
01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:05,600
to just blow this stuff up i'm not one

2288
01:20:09,669 --> 01:20:07,440
of those people i i tend to try to do

2289
01:20:10,870 --> 01:20:09,679
other things with my money but it's so

2290
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:10,880
fun to watch

2291
01:20:15,510 --> 01:20:13,840
but then you have like 25 kids you know

2292
01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:15,520
we're all drinking beer parents are

2293
01:20:17,910 --> 01:20:16,560
watching

2294
01:20:19,189 --> 01:20:17,920
but then there comes a point where

2295
01:20:21,030 --> 01:20:19,199
you're like all right we should we

2296
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:21,040
should watch closer because that's a

2297
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:23,760
that's a big firework and they seem to

2298
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:25,280
not be paying attention enough and it

2299
01:20:29,030 --> 01:20:27,840
almost seems like that same vibe

2300
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:29,040
with them

2301
01:20:32,229 --> 01:20:30,800
that they're they're just keeping an eye

2302
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:32,239
on us because we've gotten to the point

2303
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:33,600
why would they care before when we had

2304
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:36,960
spears and and bows and arrows

2305
01:20:40,310 --> 01:20:38,480
we're not going to destroy the planet

2306
01:20:42,310 --> 01:20:40,320
that they might inherit with that but

2307
01:20:43,990 --> 01:20:42,320
then once we get nuclear capabilities

2308
01:20:46,149 --> 01:20:44,000
where we could not just destroy

2309
01:20:47,830 --> 01:20:46,159
ourselves but destroy this planet they

2310
01:20:49,110 --> 01:20:47,840
also call home

2311
01:20:51,430 --> 01:20:49,120
i think that

2312
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:51,440
would definitely make them watch a

2313
01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:53,440
little bit closer and may help explain

2314
01:20:58,470 --> 01:20:55,199
why so many are seeing an association

2315
01:20:59,910 --> 01:20:58,480
with military vehicles

2316
01:21:01,510 --> 01:20:59,920
it's getting late in the conversation

2317
01:21:02,870 --> 01:21:01,520
for me to ask you this and i think i

2318
01:21:04,790 --> 01:21:02,880
might hurt my head a little bit and i'm

2319
01:21:07,270 --> 01:21:04,800
going to try and explain this easily for

2320
01:21:09,110 --> 01:21:07,280
myself um you've mentioned a few times

2321
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:09,120
that we can't go back and change the

2322
01:21:12,070 --> 01:21:10,560
past because it would have to have

2323
01:21:14,550 --> 01:21:12,080
already happened

2324
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:14,560
so for example if i am here in the

2325
01:21:18,870 --> 01:21:15,840
future

2326
01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:18,880
and or which is my present obviously and

2327
01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:19,920
i

2328
01:21:30,790 --> 01:21:28,560
past

2329
01:21:33,030 --> 01:21:30,800
would that sticker not then be there in

2330
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:33,040
the future when it wasn't there

2331
01:21:37,030 --> 01:21:34,719
at the time it was my present if that

2332
01:21:38,709 --> 01:21:37,040
makes sense so if i go back to that bit

2333
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:38,719
of ground that's empty and i put a

2334
01:21:42,390 --> 01:21:40,080
sticker in the past on that bit of

2335
01:21:44,870 --> 01:21:42,400
ground assuming no one ever moves it and

2336
01:21:46,149 --> 01:21:44,880
then i go back to the back to the future

2337
01:21:48,550 --> 01:21:46,159
i'm going to get that stuck in my head

2338
01:21:50,229 --> 01:21:48,560
now i go back to my present would that

2339
01:21:52,550 --> 01:21:50,239
stick or not now then be there and

2340
01:21:54,070 --> 01:21:52,560
therefore i've affected the past or

2341
01:21:54,950 --> 01:21:54,080
would have just always had to have been

2342
01:21:57,350 --> 01:21:54,960
now

2343
01:21:59,189 --> 01:21:57,360
yeah if that sticker wasn't there you

2344
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:59,199
didn't ever put it there in the past for

2345
01:22:01,830 --> 01:22:00,480
it to be there

2346
01:22:02,629 --> 01:22:01,840
and and

2347
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:02,639
in

2348
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:11,040
always have been there you will see it

2349
01:22:15,430 --> 01:22:12,960
and be like why is that sticker there

2350
01:22:17,669 --> 01:22:15,440
that's weird who put that there

2351
01:22:20,310 --> 01:22:17,679
but if it was always you that did it you

2352
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:20,320
will always go back and it's kind of a

2353
01:22:24,550 --> 01:22:22,800
broader example is if you visit yourself

2354
01:22:27,270 --> 01:22:24,560
in the past

2355
01:22:29,430 --> 01:22:27,280
um if you go if you have a memory of

2356
01:22:32,709 --> 01:22:29,440
interacting with yourself an older

2357
01:22:33,990 --> 01:22:32,719
version of yourself at age 8 let's say

2358
01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:34,000
and the person that came back from the

2359
01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:38,000
future was 45 when you turned 45

2360
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:38,960
there's

2361
01:22:42,790 --> 01:22:41,360
absolute certainty that you will go back

2362
01:22:44,870 --> 01:22:42,800
and visit your eight-year-old self

2363
01:22:46,709 --> 01:22:44,880
because you will have always already

2364
01:22:48,550 --> 01:22:46,719
done that those two moments are

2365
01:22:50,070 --> 01:22:48,560
connected in space time and there's

2366
01:22:51,669 --> 01:22:50,080
nothing that can change that because in

2367
01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:51,679
the block universe

2368
01:22:56,470 --> 01:22:54,560
everything that can and will ever happen

2369
01:22:57,990 --> 01:22:56,480
already did already exists in this

2370
01:23:00,790 --> 01:22:58,000
massive four-dimensional block of

2371
01:23:02,790 --> 01:23:00,800
space-time so you can't think of it as

2372
01:23:06,229 --> 01:23:02,800
well there could be a change

2373
01:23:07,910 --> 01:23:06,239
and and i i would direct people toward

2374
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:07,920
the last chapter of my book i can't

2375
01:23:11,430 --> 01:23:09,760
remember her name right now but she's a

2376
01:23:14,709 --> 01:23:11,440
philosopher

2377
01:23:16,310 --> 01:23:14,719
at a university in australia who

2378
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:16,320
explains this perfectly it's one of my

2379
01:23:20,390 --> 01:23:18,880
favorite explanations of of how backward

2380
01:23:22,470 --> 01:23:20,400
time travel would

2381
01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:22,480
work in the block universe

2382
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:25,280
and and essentially what she's saying i

2383
01:23:30,390 --> 01:23:26,880
also saw

2384
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:30,400
i also say speaking of marvel um

2385
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:33,600
who's the incredible hulk and that dr um

2386
01:23:38,229 --> 01:23:34,880
brisbane

2387
01:23:39,189 --> 01:23:38,239
yeah bruce banner a quote by him from

2388
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:39,199
um

2389
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:41,360
god one of their later

2390
01:23:43,750 --> 01:23:42,880
movies i can't remember what it is right

2391
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:43,760
now

2392
01:23:47,350 --> 01:23:45,360
which says the same thing and

2393
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:47,360
essentially the best way of thinking of

2394
01:23:53,430 --> 01:23:50,000
it is that anything you do in the past

2395
01:23:57,430 --> 01:23:55,030
when you get to the future everything's

2396
01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:57,440
the same because those moments are all

2397
01:24:01,189 --> 01:23:59,600
structured they're already in existence

2398
01:24:03,430 --> 01:24:01,199
and anything you do isn't going to

2399
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:03,440
elicit an effect it's just going to be

2400
01:24:09,189 --> 01:24:06,719
what you always have done at that time

2401
01:24:10,950 --> 01:24:09,199
and any change that occurred effect from

2402
01:24:13,110 --> 01:24:10,960
that had already happened before you

2403
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:13,120
ever went back to do it

2404
01:24:18,229 --> 01:24:15,280
and and that's the essence of the block

2405
01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:18,239
universe and and it is possible and

2406
01:24:23,030 --> 01:24:20,480
it was pointed out to me very shortly

2407
01:24:24,950 --> 01:24:23,040
after my first book came out

2408
01:24:27,030 --> 01:24:24,960
um that i didn't talk about the

2409
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:27,040
multiverse i didn't talk about

2410
01:24:31,750 --> 01:24:28,719
um the possibility that there's other

2411
01:24:32,550 --> 01:24:31,760
timelines and because

2412
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:32,560
a

2413
01:24:36,390 --> 01:24:33,760
we don't

2414
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:36,400
they there's no proof that they exist

2415
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:38,480
and b there might not be any way of

2416
01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:40,639
studying them even if they do

2417
01:24:44,229 --> 01:24:42,880
so to take a conservative approach and

2418
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:44,239
in writing a book that already

2419
01:24:50,629 --> 01:24:47,760
challenges my job so much and my my

2420
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:50,639
career you know taking that that risk i

2421
01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:53,120
needed to keep everything rooted in the

2422
01:24:56,550 --> 01:24:55,120
best evidence we have now

2423
01:24:58,390 --> 01:24:56,560
it would have been fun to speculate

2424
01:25:00,390 --> 01:24:58,400
wildly about the multiverse and these

2425
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:00,400
different timelines but the the

2426
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,360
consensus among physicists today

2427
01:25:06,950 --> 01:25:05,520
is that the block universe is real and

2428
01:25:08,790 --> 01:25:06,960
and it's easier to understand time

2429
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:08,800
travel in the context of the block

2430
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:11,199
universe the the multiverse actually

2431
01:25:15,189 --> 01:25:13,199
makes it really weird and that's when

2432
01:25:16,870 --> 01:25:15,199
you have these paradoxes once you

2433
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:16,880
interject change

2434
01:25:20,310 --> 01:25:18,239
into the question

2435
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:20,320
all of these paradoxes that we've we've

2436
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,239
learned about through mass media and

2437
01:25:25,590 --> 01:25:24,159
movies come into play in the block

2438
01:25:28,390 --> 01:25:25,600
universe they don't

2439
01:25:31,910 --> 01:25:28,400
so it's just a simpler model

2440
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:31,920
and whole and and i think um

2441
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:33,760
i i don't know i feel like it's

2442
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:36,719
intuitive and it's very understandable

2443
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,360
but i've also been reading about it

2444
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:41,520
since i was in high school so it's just

2445
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:42,719
in there now

2446
01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:45,040
but but i i and it should be for

2447
01:25:49,430 --> 01:25:47,520
everybody everybody should look in to

2448
01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:49,440
you know read a book by paul davies for

2449
01:25:55,110 --> 01:25:51,920
instance read kip thorne's work

2450
01:25:56,709 --> 01:25:55,120
on on on time and space uh stephen

2451
01:25:58,709 --> 01:25:56,719
hawking obviously even though he's a

2452
01:26:02,390 --> 01:25:58,719
staunch critic of backward time travel

2453
01:26:04,149 --> 01:26:02,400
he's sort of the guru of time so

2454
01:26:06,709 --> 01:26:04,159
read about it it's fascinating and it

2455
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:06,719
does hurt your brain but

2456
01:26:10,870 --> 01:26:08,480
i don't know i guess i'm masochistic in

2457
01:26:13,030 --> 01:26:10,880
a way because i've always enjoyed that

2458
01:26:16,229 --> 01:26:13,040
um the question from dave talks about

2459
01:26:18,229 --> 01:26:16,239
the very famous now slide nine that

2460
01:26:19,350 --> 01:26:18,239
louise elizondo and help it off have

2461
01:26:21,430 --> 01:26:19,360
talked about is that something you're

2462
01:26:23,750 --> 01:26:21,440
aware of what's it called

2463
01:26:25,910 --> 01:26:23,760
slide nine it was part of a presentation

2464
01:26:27,590 --> 01:26:25,920
from atip and it was a i'll bring it up

2465
01:26:29,910 --> 01:26:27,600
just so i get the the wording correctly

2466
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:29,920
here but it was a dod's threat scenario

2467
01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:31,840
it was a tip it was one of their slides

2468
01:26:35,510 --> 01:26:34,000
in a presentation and it reads that the

2469
01:26:37,270 --> 01:26:35,520
science exists for an enemy of the

2470
01:26:39,750 --> 01:26:37,280
united states to manipulate both

2471
01:26:42,310 --> 01:26:39,760
physical and cognitive environments in

2472
01:26:44,629 --> 01:26:42,320
order to penetrate us facilities

2473
01:26:46,629 --> 01:26:44,639
influence decision makers and compromise

2474
01:26:48,830 --> 01:26:46,639
national security and it talks about

2475
01:26:52,229 --> 01:26:48,840
psychotronic weapons cognitive human

2476
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:52,239
interference or interface um penetration

2477
01:26:57,590 --> 01:26:55,600
of solid surfaces uh and other things we

2478
01:26:59,510 --> 01:26:57,600
would associate with unidentified aerial

2479
01:27:01,590 --> 01:26:59,520
phenomena and he just wonders do you

2480
01:27:03,350 --> 01:27:01,600
think those sort of sorts of activities

2481
01:27:05,910 --> 01:27:03,360
are potentially also linked to future

2482
01:27:10,950 --> 01:27:08,310
you know i i don't have the knowledge

2483
01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:10,960
base to answer that question um

2484
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:12,800
that's undoubtedly going to be my next

2485
01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:15,520
rabbit hole but for now i i don't i

2486
01:27:19,830 --> 01:27:17,760
don't know enough about it to comment uh

2487
01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:19,840
so i apologize to the

2488
01:27:23,590 --> 01:27:21,840
the viewer for not being able to give an

2489
01:27:25,430 --> 01:27:23,600
answer to them that's all right dave's

2490
01:27:28,229 --> 01:27:25,440
got plenty of questions let me follow up

2491
01:27:30,390 --> 01:27:28,239
with another one uh and dave also asks

2492
01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:30,400
do you have a profile for future humans

2493
01:27:35,750 --> 01:27:33,360
in terms of appearance craft tech

2494
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:35,760
and if you do what is that

2495
01:27:38,870 --> 01:27:37,760
um that's an interesting question

2496
01:27:41,270 --> 01:27:38,880
um

2497
01:27:42,550 --> 01:27:41,280
i don't really because it it's

2498
01:27:45,270 --> 01:27:42,560
changeable it'd be like saying do you

2499
01:27:47,189 --> 01:27:45,280
have a profile for modern humans with

2500
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:47,199
regard to

2501
01:27:52,470 --> 01:27:49,920
their physiology their technology

2502
01:27:55,110 --> 01:27:52,480
you can you can take random samples of

2503
01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:55,120
people from all over the world including

2504
01:27:58,950 --> 01:27:57,840
those yet to be contacted amazonian

2505
01:28:01,110 --> 01:27:58,960
tribes

2506
01:28:02,950 --> 01:28:01,120
and then lay out all of their technology

2507
01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:02,960
look at their physical form

2508
01:28:06,310 --> 01:28:04,880
and then you try to say all right what's

2509
01:28:08,310 --> 01:28:06,320
the average

2510
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:08,320
human and their physiology and

2511
01:28:12,709 --> 01:28:09,760
technology you just can't do it because

2512
01:28:15,030 --> 01:28:12,719
we're so variable and i feel like that

2513
01:28:16,070 --> 01:28:15,040
variation will persist into the future

2514
01:28:18,790 --> 01:28:16,080
but then

2515
01:28:21,350 --> 01:28:18,800
it's also complicated or not complicated

2516
01:28:23,750 --> 01:28:21,360
but that variation is added too

2517
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:23,760
by temporal variation

2518
01:28:27,030 --> 01:28:25,760
obviously someone coming back from 100

2519
01:28:28,470 --> 01:28:27,040
years in the future is going to have a

2520
01:28:31,189 --> 01:28:28,480
different physical form and different

2521
01:28:33,510 --> 01:28:31,199
technology than someone 300 years in the

2522
01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,520
future 3 000 years in the future 20 000

2523
01:28:36,790 --> 01:28:35,120
years in the future so if that

2524
01:28:38,229 --> 01:28:36,800
technology continues to exist and

2525
01:28:40,390 --> 01:28:38,239
they're coming from multiple different

2526
01:28:43,830 --> 01:28:40,400
time periods spread throughout the

2527
01:28:46,390 --> 01:28:43,840
hominin future that adds to all of the

2528
01:28:48,310 --> 01:28:46,400
existing variation that exists in each

2529
01:28:49,430 --> 01:28:48,320
of those time periods

2530
01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:49,440
um

2531
01:28:52,470 --> 01:28:50,639
so it's not really an answer to the

2532
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:52,480
question but i think it's important to

2533
01:28:56,870 --> 01:28:54,560
acknowledge that because it needs to be

2534
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:56,880
taken into account it's a big part

2535
01:29:00,229 --> 01:28:57,920
of

2536
01:29:02,070 --> 01:29:00,239
you know how it's hard to project

2537
01:29:04,149 --> 01:29:02,080
our humanness into the future when

2538
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:04,159
people used to ask me you know how long

2539
01:29:09,110 --> 01:29:07,040
will it take for us to become the greys

2540
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:09,120
well there's there's sex variation

2541
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:11,760
there's geographic variation there's age

2542
01:29:14,709 --> 01:29:13,120
variation

2543
01:29:16,870 --> 01:29:14,719
all of those things need to be taken

2544
01:29:18,790 --> 01:29:16,880
into account we just don't have enough

2545
01:29:20,950 --> 01:29:18,800
data from these future humans to be able

2546
01:29:22,550 --> 01:29:20,960
to do that so i never felt comfortable

2547
01:29:24,950 --> 01:29:22,560
answering that question

2548
01:29:27,510 --> 01:29:24,960
no that's fair and final question from

2549
01:29:29,430 --> 01:29:27,520
newman uh newman asks and he's gave me

2550
01:29:31,510 --> 01:29:29,440
some context behind us as well clearly

2551
01:29:33,510 --> 01:29:31,520
having already read the book um the

2552
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:33,520
question is james fox the director of

2553
01:29:38,070 --> 01:29:35,520
the phenomenon and upcoming virginia

2554
01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:38,080
case moment of contact um stated that

2555
01:29:41,750 --> 01:29:39,840
his sources claimed that at least one

2556
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:41,760
percent of the human population are

2557
01:29:46,790 --> 01:29:45,120
human alien hybrids likewise former cia

2558
01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:46,800
john ramirez who's also been interviewed

2559
01:29:51,510 --> 01:29:49,440
on the podcast i watched that one yeah i

2560
01:29:53,430 --> 01:29:51,520
watched that podcast it was

2561
01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:53,440
john's a really nice guy yeah it seemed

2562
01:29:57,430 --> 01:29:55,440
like it he's also heard this claim

2563
01:30:00,070 --> 01:29:57,440
within a briefing he attended

2564
01:30:01,590 --> 01:30:00,080
in light of your extraterpestrial model

2565
01:30:03,430 --> 01:30:01,600
can you give any opinion on the

2566
01:30:06,790 --> 01:30:03,440
statement that hybrids are actually

2567
01:30:08,870 --> 01:30:06,800
already walking among us

2568
01:30:09,750 --> 01:30:08,880
yeah absolutely um and i love that

2569
01:30:12,550 --> 01:30:09,760
question

2570
01:30:15,669 --> 01:30:12,560
and and as people who have read

2571
01:30:17,350 --> 01:30:15,679
either of my books no and this uh

2572
01:30:20,470 --> 01:30:17,360
listener

2573
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:20,480
um what is was his name again newman

2574
01:30:23,990 --> 01:30:22,719
newman like newman

2575
01:30:26,470 --> 01:30:24,000
yeah okay

2576
01:30:32,070 --> 01:30:29,510
it's so hard for me not to do the

2577
01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:32,080
jerry seinfeld newman scream there but

2578
01:30:36,070 --> 01:30:34,560
i'm i'm holding back i'm exercising free

2579
01:30:38,149 --> 01:30:36,080
will at the moment

2580
01:30:40,470 --> 01:30:38,159
um it's it's important to acknowledge

2581
01:30:42,229 --> 01:30:40,480
the biological classification of species

2582
01:30:43,669 --> 01:30:42,239
concept that if we're talking about

2583
01:30:45,590 --> 01:30:43,679
hybrids

2584
01:30:48,790 --> 01:30:45,600
and obviously it could make the case

2585
01:30:50,870 --> 01:30:48,800
that an advanced extraterrestrial

2586
01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:50,880
species would be able to maybe figure

2587
01:30:53,830 --> 01:30:52,480
out a way to combine

2588
01:30:56,629 --> 01:30:53,840
our genome

2589
01:30:58,229 --> 01:30:56,639
a simpler explanation is that they're

2590
01:31:00,149 --> 01:30:58,239
already us and they already share a

2591
01:31:03,510 --> 01:31:00,159
genome and we can already reproduce with

2592
01:31:06,070 --> 01:31:03,520
them so these hybrids i think are a good

2593
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,080
indication of this future human model

2594
01:31:09,430 --> 01:31:08,480
this extra tempestual model because if

2595
01:31:11,510 --> 01:31:09,440
you can

2596
01:31:14,070 --> 01:31:11,520
reproduce two species

2597
01:31:16,070 --> 01:31:14,080
uh or alleged separate species and

2598
01:31:17,669 --> 01:31:16,080
create viable offspring that can go on

2599
01:31:18,870 --> 01:31:17,679
to reproduce itself they are by

2600
01:31:20,629 --> 01:31:18,880
definition

2601
01:31:21,590 --> 01:31:20,639
the same species

2602
01:31:23,590 --> 01:31:21,600
um

2603
01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:23,600
and i've also met these people you know

2604
01:31:27,669 --> 01:31:25,199
from a last

2605
01:31:29,110 --> 01:31:27,679
nerdy scientific standpoint i've met a

2606
01:31:31,110 --> 01:31:29,120
lot of people

2607
01:31:32,950 --> 01:31:31,120
whose grandmother

2608
01:31:34,470 --> 01:31:32,960
had a strange pregnancy that she

2609
01:31:36,629 --> 01:31:34,480
couldn't explain

2610
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:36,639
these people often have uh

2611
01:31:41,510 --> 01:31:39,360
psychic powers they they have telepathy

2612
01:31:43,669 --> 01:31:41,520
they can remote view easier than other

2613
01:31:45,270 --> 01:31:43,679
people and you start to hear enough of

2614
01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:45,280
these and you're like

2615
01:31:49,990 --> 01:31:47,600
well damn maybe this is happening

2616
01:31:51,270 --> 01:31:50,000
why is the obvious question what's the

2617
01:31:53,669 --> 01:31:51,280
end game

2618
01:31:56,149 --> 01:31:53,679
is it some sort of experiment

2619
01:31:58,470 --> 01:31:56,159
but what's cool about it is it indicates

2620
01:32:00,790 --> 01:31:58,480
that some of these psi capabilities are

2621
01:32:03,189 --> 01:32:00,800
heritable characteristics they're not

2622
01:32:05,750 --> 01:32:03,199
learned that if you have an individual

2623
01:32:07,990 --> 01:32:05,760
from say 15 000 years in the future

2624
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:08,000
that's already developed telepathy and

2625
01:32:12,550 --> 01:32:11,040
that ability to communicate in a very

2626
01:32:13,669 --> 01:32:12,560
interesting one

2627
01:32:16,070 --> 01:32:13,679
and they

2628
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,080
somehow reproduce with or interject

2629
01:32:19,510 --> 01:32:18,480
their genome into someone from this time

2630
01:32:20,709 --> 01:32:19,520
period

2631
01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:20,719
but then

2632
01:32:25,510 --> 01:32:23,760
someone two generations down from them

2633
01:32:27,830 --> 01:32:25,520
still has that capability that's

2634
01:32:29,830 --> 01:32:27,840
fascinating that's really

2635
01:32:32,870 --> 01:32:29,840
indicative of some

2636
01:32:34,470 --> 01:32:32,880
evolutionary aspect of our consciousness

2637
01:32:37,590 --> 01:32:34,480
and our brains

2638
01:32:39,590 --> 01:32:37,600
that that we don't yet have and and so

2639
01:32:41,030 --> 01:32:39,600
yeah i i hope that's true i mean

2640
01:32:42,390 --> 01:32:41,040
obviously how do you

2641
01:32:45,030 --> 01:32:42,400
test that how do you figure out if one

2642
01:32:46,709 --> 01:32:45,040
percent of the human population

2643
01:32:49,510 --> 01:32:46,719
is a hybrid but

2644
01:32:52,790 --> 01:32:49,520
having met these people and seeing them

2645
01:32:54,470 --> 01:32:52,800
demonstrate their abilities i i would

2646
01:32:56,790 --> 01:32:54,480
tend to believe that more and i use the

2647
01:32:59,669 --> 01:32:56,800
word belief because i don't have a way

2648
01:33:03,270 --> 01:32:59,679
of of testing this scientifically

2649
01:33:04,470 --> 01:33:03,280
but i i think there's something to that

2650
01:33:06,149 --> 01:33:04,480
well look we have covered a lot of

2651
01:33:07,990 --> 01:33:06,159
ground and thank you to everyone who

2652
01:33:09,910 --> 01:33:08,000
sent in questions and apologies to those

2653
01:33:12,550 --> 01:33:09,920
who didn't get theirs answered this time

2654
01:33:14,790 --> 01:33:12,560
round i definitely recommend you pick up

2655
01:33:16,229 --> 01:33:14,800
your copy of the extra tempestual model

2656
01:33:18,790 --> 01:33:16,239
i'm still working my way through the

2657
01:33:21,590 --> 01:33:18,800
rest of the audio book um how can people

2658
01:33:23,990 --> 01:33:21,600
follow you michael and also get a copy

2659
01:33:27,110 --> 01:33:24,000
of your work

2660
01:33:29,430 --> 01:33:27,120
um i mean unfortunately amazon is the

2661
01:33:31,990 --> 01:33:29,440
best option and i say unfortunately

2662
01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:32,000
because they sort of took over the book

2663
01:33:35,990 --> 01:33:33,840
they took over everything am i kidding

2664
01:33:38,470 --> 01:33:36,000
yeah

2665
01:33:40,550 --> 01:33:38,480
but if you have a local bookshop have

2666
01:33:42,229 --> 01:33:40,560
have them get it i do also distribute

2667
01:33:44,149 --> 01:33:42,239
through ingram so it's a wholesale i

2668
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:44,159
don't make as much money but i'd like to

2669
01:33:47,830 --> 01:33:45,199
support

2670
01:33:49,750 --> 01:33:47,840
a local bookstore so

2671
01:33:51,430 --> 01:33:49,760
talk to talk to your local bookstore and

2672
01:33:54,310 --> 01:33:51,440
try to get them to get it

2673
01:33:56,550 --> 01:33:54,320
if they can't or they won't or they hate

2674
01:33:59,189 --> 01:33:56,560
the idea and and tell you to piss off

2675
01:34:01,830 --> 01:33:59,199
and go away then go to amazon that's

2676
01:34:05,350 --> 01:34:01,840
available there as andy pointed out

2677
01:34:07,430 --> 01:34:05,360
ebook audio book and paperback

2678
01:34:10,470 --> 01:34:07,440
um as far as following

2679
01:34:13,750 --> 01:34:10,480
i have a website um i just designed a

2680
01:34:16,070 --> 01:34:13,760
new logo that's been fun for me

2681
01:34:17,830 --> 01:34:16,080
future human time machine there's a

2682
01:34:20,149 --> 01:34:17,840
there's the same number of letters in

2683
01:34:21,750 --> 01:34:20,159
each one so it fit well i haven't made

2684
01:34:23,270 --> 01:34:21,760
like t-shirts i mostly just have these

2685
01:34:24,629 --> 01:34:23,280
for my friends but it's also on a

2686
01:34:25,830 --> 01:34:24,639
t-shirt

2687
01:34:26,950 --> 01:34:25,840
i don't know

2688
01:34:28,950 --> 01:34:26,960
i had to do something different because

2689
01:34:29,910 --> 01:34:28,960
you remember the faces that i had before

2690
01:34:32,070 --> 01:34:29,920
the like

2691
01:34:33,590 --> 01:34:32,080
jim face and i was like i can't use that

2692
01:34:35,430 --> 01:34:33,600
for the new book so i had to design

2693
01:34:36,550 --> 01:34:35,440
something new so

2694
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:36,560
um

2695
01:34:40,390 --> 01:34:38,560
but yeah i don't know twitter facebook

2696
01:34:41,910 --> 01:34:40,400
all the same stuff wherever you follow

2697
01:34:44,229 --> 01:34:41,920
other people i'm probably on there

2698
01:34:45,590 --> 01:34:44,239
somewhere making full of myself so

2699
01:34:46,870 --> 01:34:45,600
come join me

2700
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:46,880
all those links will be back in the

2701
01:34:50,709 --> 01:34:49,360
description for the podcast as well so

2702
01:34:51,910 --> 01:34:50,719
thank you very much for your time dr

2703
01:34:54,550 --> 01:34:51,920
masters

2704
01:34:56,390 --> 01:34:54,560
absolutely it's always always a pleasure

2705
01:34:58,470 --> 01:34:56,400
um speak to you again soon

2706
01:35:00,470 --> 01:34:58,480
that is all for this week's show thank

2707
01:35:02,470 --> 01:35:00,480
you very much for listening please

2708
01:35:05,109 --> 01:35:02,480
remember to leave the podcast a review

2709
01:35:07,430 --> 01:35:05,119
on your chosen platform you can like

2710
01:35:09,350 --> 01:35:07,440
retweet and subscribe that would all be

2711
01:35:11,510 --> 01:35:09,360
very much appreciated the shows are

2712
01:35:13,030 --> 01:35:11,520
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

2713
01:35:15,510 --> 01:35:13,040
more and more you can sign up at

2714
01:35:18,229 --> 01:35:15,520
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

2715
01:35:20,470 --> 01:35:18,239
podcast to access shows ad free as well

2716
01:35:23,270 --> 01:35:20,480
please get in touch on twitter facebook

2717
01:35:26,470 --> 01:35:23,280
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

2718
01:35:28,550 --> 01:35:26,480
twitter it's at ufouapam

2719
01:35:31,570 --> 01:35:28,560
and again folks as always keep looking

2720
01:35:51,830 --> 01:35:31,580
up you never know what you might see

2721
01:36:07,750 --> 01:36:00,080
[Music]

2722
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:28,470
i can't imagine how it could have

2723
01:36:32,990 --> 01:36:29,750
there was something on my head and

2724
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:33,000
everything was weird and everything was

2725
01:36:56,390 --> 01:36:47,080
[Music]

2726
01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:02,400
over there

2727
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:06,870
[Music]

2728
01:37:37,270 --> 01:37:33,970
outside

2729
01:37:39,109 --> 01:37:37,280
[Music]

2730
01:37:41,220 --> 01:37:39,119
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

2731
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:41,230
saucer

2732
01:38:26,070 --> 01:37:59,830
[Music]